From MAGA to Clarity: Pamela Hemphill's Journey Through January 6th

Pamela Hemphill: 00:00:00

Foreign.

David Wheeler: 00:00:05

Welcome to Muck U episode number three with our friend Pamela Hemphill. Pamela, great to meet you and thank you for joining Colonel Mo Davis and myself.

Pamela Hemphill: 00:00:14

Oh, thank you. It's my honor to meet both of you.

David Wheeler: 00:00:17

Well, I appreciate that. Can you give us a little bit background on your experience with J6 and then maybe a little bit about what happened in court and your response?

Pamela Hemphill: 00:00:28

Oh, that first question is a long story and you'd have to more specific what part and when did I get started?

Colonel Mo Davis: 00:00:35

Well, I would say what. How did you get involved in the MAGA movement? And then what took brought you to to Washington and then what happened subsequent to Washington?

Pamela Hemphill: 00:00:45

Well, first, remember back then it wasn't Omega move, but I had retired as an alcohol and drug counselor. I heard about a protest, the no Dapple protest up in North Dakota with the Native Americans against the pipeline.

And I thought I'm going to go up there and support him. But found out that it had been hijacked. I came back. I followed him for a year and kept writing. I wrote a book about that.

Then when I was done with that protest, I found a little interest in politics. And then I went on a volunteer as a community TV show host helping alcoholics and addicts in our community, just as a volunteer.

And the Mega Girls were all over every state flying flags on the corner. They called themselves the Mega Girls. They'd heard about me, so, so they said, would you come out here and videotape us and interview people for us?

I said I'd love to because I'm bored. You know, you're retired. You just. Anybody's asking you to volunteer, I just would do it, have something to do constructive.

And that's when I got involved. I started videotaping the second Amendment event. Any type of speaker, Republican, a senator.

If they were having an event, I would go out there videotaping. I would be live on Facebook and people started calling me a citizen journalist. But I'm not a journalist.

I was just out there as somebody that's retired bored and enjoying it and meeting a lot of people and you would. I wasn't familiar with disinformation like I am now.

But you're fed so much and you're gaslighted so much that you just soak in all this information they're giving you and you're not even checking it out. But make a long story to speed it up. By the time. Well, I had run into AM and Bundy.

He was the far right militia that started the People's rights movement. Here in Boise, Idaho, that stood up to the FBI agent. They call him the Bundy Ranch.

And I thought, he's carrying a Bible and telling us that the Democrats want to turn it into a communist country. And it scared me, which I know now that his interpretation of the Constitution speeded up. Then the lockdowns happened.

And then I kept just going out there and talking to different people. And then when the election came around and Trump's out there lying that the election was stolen, I would ask people, where's the evidence?

But they'd say, oh, Pam, whatever you do, don't listen to this news. Don't listen to that. They all lie. The Democrats have been trying to steal elections forever. Just believe me that it's been stolen.

And so I went along with it. And then I got invited by my family to go there that day because I had chemotherapy scheduled in two weeks to start chemo.

And I thought, oh, this would be. Give me a little chance to go do something and maybe see the White House. I thought it would be a fun thing.

Of course, we all know now it turned into a nightmare.

Colonel Mo Davis: 00:03:31

down the escalator in June of: 2015

like for you prior to June of: 2015

Pamela Hemphill: 00:03:47

Well, right before he was elected, that's what I was sharing. The Standing Rock protest in North Dakota, I was following that.

And then when he was elected, he shut that protest down and allowed the pipeline to go through. So that was my first time after being retired that I got involved in anything that was political.

Colonel Mo Davis: 00:04:08

Yeah. I guess I'm just curious what really appealed to you about. About this movement that the.

Pamela Hemphill: 00:04:14

The message was that the Democrats want to turn this into a communist nation. I never heard the word fascist back. It was a communist nation. Now, who wants to live in a communist nation? And you're a naive person.

You know, like most people, I'm just an average. I'm not studying politics or paying attention to the news. I had a family, very schooled in politics.

They would just call me and tell me who to vote for and what books to read and who to listen to. So I did, because I respected them. I didn't. I figured they know who's the right person to vote for. Right?

David Wheeler: 00:04:49

Yeah.

Pamela Hemphill: 00:04:50

And a lot of people do that. They just. They're not caring. They're not involved. Involved. And so they go along with their close Friends or relative. And I was one of those.

Colonel Mo Davis: 00:04:59

How about on January 6, how would you describe the, you know, the mood and. And your involvement in what you experienced? What was that day like?

Pamela Hemphill: 00:05:06

Well, it was really very pleasant. Everybody, you know, there were songs going on and people gathered in little groups.

It didn't feel as angry as I thought it was going to feel until later. But in the beginning, right there where Trump was talking, well, see, I couldn't get through.

I got there at: 10:30

And I said, what's he going up to the Capitol for? He just talked, but I thought, maybe he's meeting with Congress or something, but I'll get up there before everybody.

And it was pleasant walking there towards the Capitol. It was a long walk, talking to different people. Everybody was just, you know, the election has been stolen and talking about different things.

And I kept walking, interviewed a few people on the way, and I turned around, I got to the Capitol. I didn't know where to go, though, because I don't even know there was two sides to the Capitol. And I turned around, and they were the proud boys.

So I went up to the proud boys. Oh, my God. I said, are you the proud Boys? They said, yes, we are, man. I said, are we going inside the Capitol? Oh, my God.

Because I thought they're there to protect Trump, like a second security or something. And of course, they're not going to break the law. They're going to go in legally with Trump.

And I wanted to stand close to them so I could keep video. I was live on Facebook for Boise, Idaho, followers, but they just kept walking. They went on the side that I ended up on.

And I did talk to one of their journalists that was doing camera work. I said, isn't anybody going in the Capitol with Trump? I think a few have a plan.

And I thought, well, tell me who these people are so I can go with them. I want to be right there with Trump. But they got lost in the crowd. I don't know what happened. And I went up front so I could be up front.

And then I know now that they left and went around to the other side of the Capitol where the all that violence was going on. See, I'm on the other side. I'm next to William Dunphy, and he's talking to an officer, and he turns to me, and I Said, what's going on?

He said, we're negotiating. They're going to move the barriers and let us up to the steps. And I thought, oh, that'd be great. We'd be close to trip. Because I don't know.

I'm confused. I don't know what's happening. And I'm by myself. There's nobody to talk to. Like, what's the schedule here? What's going on?

But they started shoving on the barriers, and I got. I had taken half a pain pill because I was having some pain. I had stitches.

And I think that hit me a little bit, because when they're pushing on the barriers, you know how it is. You're in a hurry to get into a baseball game or a concert. People, they're allowed to come in, but they're in a hurry, right?

I got confused, and an officer pulls me over. So I'm thinking he's letting me in first. I go around telling everybody, come on in. It's your house. And then I noticed nobody's coming in.

So I went to this officer, this female officer, and she said, they're not letting them in. Oh, my God. I thought, oh, my God. That. That wasn't letting us in. They were. They were actually at that.

They were pushing to get in, but they put me right back to the same spot. Within a. I don't know, very half a minute, they did it a second time. I was too late. I was stuck there. And the officer pulled me over again.

I ran to the captain. I told the captain, I'm scared to death. It felt like a buffalo's coming at you. So I was running. I was scared of getting trampled.

And he said, go up to the front. I'll let the officers know you're coming, and I'll have them put you behind them. Because I told him I had stitches. I'm scared.

Well, I got to the steps, and the crowd pushed me towards an officer. But I was thinking real quick, and I put myself backwards. I landed on the steps.

They stepped on my head, pulled out my shoulder, cut my knee, broke my glasses. I was not breathing. And the two Capitol Police officers pulled me up and put me behind them.

The female officer kept yelling at me to leave, but I couldn't. I was not breathing. She kept yelling at me. I got all this on video and. But I just sat there for 20 minutes, at least.

And then they pushed themselves up, pushed the officers over and got up to the top of the steps by the door. And that's when I knew, you know, this is really insane here. So I went to the captain, I got up, I could.

I was breathing, finally, and I said, what's going on, sir? Why aren't they calling the National Guard? It's crazy. And he said, I can't get a hold of anybody. But fast forward.

I saw people coming in and out of the door. I know now what was going on. I didn't even know there was a riot on the other side. I wasn't even aware of that yet.

The people on the other side were being taken around and coming out on my side, and people were coming out and they were pushing other people in. The crowd was pushing themselves in. So I got shoved in with them because I.

Right at the door, I was trying to ask the officer if it was legal to go in, but I didn't get a chance because they push you in. So I sat down and then went to an officer where they were trying to get him out again. I said, I can't. I can't be with these people. They're insane.

They're. They ran over me already and almost killed me. Can you help me get out? He said, yeah, he helped me get out of the Capitol.

And then I walked around, I saw Jacob Chancely, the Buffalo man. Went up and videotaped him. And then after him, he went up to the front, I went up to the front.

And then that's when Trump made his announcement for all of us to leave. I know you're good people and we love you. Yeah. Does that give you.

Colonel Mo Davis: 00:10:20

It does.

Pamela Hemphill: 00:10:20

Little picture.

Colonel Mo Davis: 00:10:21

It does. And obviously you ended up going through some other consequences as a result of what happened that day. Having to go to court and, and doing.

Doing some time in jail as well.

Pamela Hemphill: 00:10:32

O. Yes. Prison.

Colonel Mo Davis: 00:10:33

Yeah. What, what was that experience like?

Pamela Hemphill: 00:10:36

Oh, it was horrifying. I was in Dublin Prison, California, one of the worst prisons. It's a unit for 10 years or more lifers. But they had nowhere else to put me.

So the girls there didn't even believe I was there for a misdemeanor. They said, nobody has been in this unit with misdemeanor. But it was horrifying.

I just found out that Joe Biden did end up pardoning the woman that helped me, Michelle West. He just pardoned her. She's the one.

She's a beautiful black woman that really looked over me and made sure the girls there were 95% women there that are cartel women. They were planning to put drugs in my room so I could get another four year sentence or kill me because they didn't like Trump. So she.

I owe her a lot. That lady Michelle west, you might want to look her up. She got pardoned, you know, because I told her when I was there, I said, look at Michelle.

I think I was just sent here to help you because I've been talking about her since I got out. Beautiful lady. She was. She was one of those that was in prison as an innocent person, but you know how they're all innocent. But she was right.

What was the next. Is that all the. Did I answer the question?

Colonel Mo Davis: 00:11:45

Yeah, I think so, David.

David Wheeler: 00:11:46

Yeah. Again, Pamela, horrifying situation for you. And I can just. With your description, I can almost feel myself there.

And we've certainly all seen video, so I can understand was a pretty traumatic experience for you. Did you.

David Wheeler: 00:12:01

Who you.

Colonel Mo Davis: 00:12:01

Who did you feel had organized the let's get into the cap, or was it just something that happens spontaneously?

Pamela Hemphill: 00:12:09

No, from my research and my own belief, no. Trump did this 100% with all his enablers around him and other people, I really believe, who would sit for three hours and let it keep going. Come on.

He was enjoying that, wasn't he? He's a dangerous narcissist. I think Trump, it was going to be wild. Why would it be wild? I mean, that should have been a red flag right there for me.

But you're not paying attention like I am today. Of course, that's just my beliefs. I don't know if there's evidence. I think there is some.

I think Jack Smith was able to prove that he should be in prison for that, that day.

David Wheeler: 00:12:43

Pam, what was it that happened between January 6th and like, now you're describing Trump as a narcissist and enjoyed watching what happened. What, what led to your. Your change in. In beliefs and attitude?

Pamela Hemphill: 00:12:57

Well, Actually, it was two incidents. First, I had started the first J6Space on Twitter, which is now X to help the J6ers and their families.

We got together, we're talking, and it was about six months after prison that when this happened. So it wasn't right away. I was still a victim. I still had this feeling like I didn't break the law. I didn't do anything wrong.

I wouldn't have hurt any. I didn't break it. You know, that attitude, just, I think, a victim kind of attitude. So what happened? I started that space.

Then I learned about Ryan Samsel. He's the one that Ray Epps whispered in his ear.

He was wearing that red cap and he pushed bar the barriers, knocked down that female officer with the barrier. Well, he's in jail and he's claiming with Gateway pundit that in jail, the guards had beat him up and he lost his whole eye.

And I thought, oh, no, this is horrible. So I did my own research. And plus I had a lot of contacts at that time, even his girlfriend, and found out that he was lying.

I went back to my mega group and I said, look at you guys. This guy's lying. His gifts didn't go. Went up to 40,000. Oh, my God. They got upset at me and said, who are you listening to? That's not true.

And then I came back with another fact on I think it was the Capitol doors were not opened by the police officer. They got mad at me again, screamed at me. Well, eventually they got me out of there, wouldn't let me come back into space.

So I said, well, this is it, man. They're lying. They're standing up for people that have harmed officers. I'm not okay with that.

I didn't think that's what we were going to do, maybe research anything that the government was overreaching on, but not standing up for criminals that are beating up officers. Come on. But that's what they were doing.

So I started the J6 gaslighting space, and that's when everything turned Sedition hunters, researchers and Democrats came in and actually gave me receipts. Not their opinion, not what they thought happened. I mean, evidence. And it's like, okay, man.

And then that's when I saw that everything they were putting out was a lie. You know, about Nancy Perowski, everything, You know, all the propaganda they've been putting out. There was a lot.

It's like, come on, I've got to do something. I've got to push back on this. And then the second incident, it was right at that time I went to my therapist and I was playing that victim.

It was right in between before I started the, you know, turned over right in the middle. He said, Ms. Hemphill, you're not a victim of January 6th. You were a volunteer. You were a volunteer. You could have left. I said, Dr. Rice.

He said, no, I don't want to hear it. You were not a victim. I went home and I thought, I'm never going to see that therapist again.

Well, I had been seeing him for a long time, and I realized he was right. He was right. I was not a victim.

And I had to pray about it, write about it, and get honest with myself, because I've been in recovery now, and I'll just tell you, an AA for 45 years. I've been sober and that's part of my program.

I've got to be right with God and honest with myself and honest with other people and take responsibility when you know when you're wrong, properly admit. And so that helped being in a 12 step program to get honest with myself and make amends. And now this has been my amendment.

It's not just saying you're sorry. You really have to show that make amends somehow make it right forever being there that day.

David Wheeler: 00:16:19

Because, you know, right now, for a lot of folks, you know, looking from the outside, things seem rather hopeless. I think hearing your story, I think is really encouraging.

And I'm just curious, do you think out of other people that are still caught up in the movement, is there any hope of reaching them and making facts matter again?

Pamela Hemphill: 00:16:36

Yes, there is. It's not comparing it with, as an alcohol and drug counselor and a person in recovery working with addicts and alcoholics. It's the same thing.

What you're seeing is denial in the mega right because they're protecting their own interests right now, their own beliefs, religious, political, whatever. They cannot change until they've hit their own bottom, which they will when they see what Trump is doing will affect them.

But all we can do, the most important, is to keep putting the facts in front of their face. I'm a little more, you know, the good cop, the backup. I'm the backup.

You can get mad at me because I'm telling you the facts about January 6th and scream at me, but one day you'll come back and you apologize. I'm not out to make a friend with you. But alcoholics, especially in addicts, just like the maga, the same principle, you have to be honest with them.

You, it's what they used to call it tough love, you know, but it works because they remember what you said and they come back later, you plant this seed, even though they, you know, they scream and yell at you. Oh, well, you've been listening to the wrong news. Yeah, okay. Well, I don't think so. Am I making any sense?

David Wheeler: 00:17:53

No, you sure are. And I'm curious, you have any recommendations on how to. I mean, it just seems like it's more difficult now to get the facts out.

You know, Elon Musk is, you know, bought X and turned it into something vastly different than what Twitter was when it started. So social media has taken a hard right shift and the mainstream media seems to have kowtowed to the pressure.

So any thoughts on how people that are caught up in the movement, how to Connect with them.

Pamela Hemphill: 00:18:22

Actually, it's probably going to have to come from somebody in Congress. It's something we have to brainstorm together about. Where do we go from here?

Now they have to be willing, you have to be willing and open minded enough to listen to somebody else besides Trump and the mega people. And it's very difficult right now. They don't want to hear anything from anybody. It's Trump's right.

You know, Trump's brainwashed him over and over that the deep, deep state is in, the DOJ is after them. It's not true. It's called a system that's been working for a very long time very well. But he wants to get out of his crimes.

So he uses, he's used the whole nation for his own interest. But yeah, that's a difficult, I don't have an answer for that right now after brainstorm on that one.

Colonel Mo Davis: 00:19:08

But Pam, you've left out an important element of your story. Or maybe I left it out. You cop to your crimes, you told a judge, yes, I did it. And you went to jail for it.

Pamela Hemphill: 00:19:19

You know what, you know what he told me? Ms. Hemphill, I believe you, but the lady before you, I, I think he gave her probation.

Then she goes out and turns around and says the opposite of what she said to the judge. That was Judge Lambert. And I said, he said, so I don't trust you guys. I said, well, I'm not lying. You know, I'm, I am sorry for that day.

But he's, I get it. See, this is what they've done. They've just went out there and lied. They're just lying and minimizing. And you know the big one about no due process?

All you got to go do is look up the court recordings. Everyone has gotten due process, but they don't want to do it. It's like, almost like I don't want to reality the truth right now.

I got to stick with it. What do they really want it to be? An all white Christian nation. I mean, that's what I'm hearing.

You know, it's, I'm as baffled with all of this, you guys, as you are what to do with these people, you know, but as you know, we can't change anybody. They have to be willing to change.

Colonel Mo Davis: 00:20:18

That's right. So, so you went through a try. Did you have a trial or did you just.

Pamela Hemphill: 00:20:22

Oh yeah, I had a trial. No, no, no trial. No, I pleaded to a picketing and.

Colonel Mo Davis: 00:20:28

Parading, which was a misdemeanor. And you got how Many months in jail.

Pamela Hemphill: 00:20:32

60 days in prison.

Colonel Mo Davis: 00:20:33

60 days. And the woman before you lied to the judge and got nothing.

Pamela Hemphill: 00:20:37

Yeah, but she went out and said the opposite. But, you know, Judge Lamberty, I mean, these people, I get it. I'm not upset at him.

I mean, he was upset that he's trying to believe people, you know, as a judge, and then they're just outright lying to you. And then they go out and say that DOJ was weaponized against them and they're not, they're innocent. I mean, how can he trust me? I mean, I'm one.

You know, I understand, understand that. So I kind of feel grateful anyway that my judge treated me well. I get it, I understand it. How can you trust these J6ers?

They're all lie, every single one.

I've, I've gone through all the, almost all the cases and I've debunked everything they put out there from the proud boys, the Oath keepers, you name it. Ryan, Samso, all these horrible ones. Jake Lane, the worst one that had a bat. Oh, my God.

Telling everybody he's never had due process and he changed lawyers twice. He postponed his own, you know, just lying. And he's made over 300,000 doll dollars. They're making money.

They don't want to give up their money or their victimhood. They love it. Yeah, the DOJ was weaponized. It's a communist country. The Democrats, oh, my God.

Just blame, blame, blame, find fault, and everybody believes it. I don't know. That's amazing. I never thought I'd see a nation that would really buy into all this stuff, this bs.

But they're like me out there, not studying, not researching, you know, what do.

David Wheeler: 00:21:59

You think the impact of the pardons is going to be on the, you know, folks like that?

Pamela Hemphill: 00:22:03

Is that going to horrifying or fine? What about the rule of law? What does that tell you? Oh, I could go out there and beat a police officer and get away with it.

Now, I know there's some that are in prison for beating up a police officer, but look at that. This is the people that were supporting Trump.

It's like anybody that's going to support Trump and do something like a, say at a peaceful protest, they go out there, they can do anything they want.

They could shoot somebody they wanted to because they're doing it in the name of Trump, because they're seeing, you know, the protest would be something against Trump. Right. So if they go out there and break up that protest and they harm somebody, Trump's not going to care. He's ain't gonna care.

Yeah, it's very frightening. It's very scary. I don't, I wouldn't, I'm never going to attend any events too frightening. I hope it doesn't discourage other people.

It's only mainly for me because I'm known, you know, I would get sitting.

David Wheeler: 00:22:56

Yeah, I'm curious. So what's like life like for you now that you know, obviously if you've made a pretty substantial transformation in your life. So what's it like now?

Pamela Hemphill: 00:23:06

Well, you know, I still attend my meetings. I, I have friends within the meeting and I still just live my life the way one day at a time turn. I trust in God every morning. I pray for direction.

I do what's in front of me. I read a book, clean the house, go to meeting, you know, talk to you guys.

I'm just trying to remember to just live my life and keep going on and keep trying to do the right thing. And I just feel kind of fortunate.

I'm not out to be do anything perfect anymore anymore, but mainly just stay focused on trying to help other alcoholics and addicts when I do go to meetings. That's the most important thing for me right now in my life.

Now it has been, is to carry this message to other alcoholics that you can get sober and have a better life and you can be sober and mess up like I do. But there's some. You can also admit when you're wrong and make amends for it. So don't drink over making mistakes.

Don't go using drugs because you're going to make mistakes.

You can stay sober and work the steps, which is when you're wrong, admit it and then make amends for what you did and move on and try to become a better person. Try not to repeat, you know, repeat your mistakes.

David Wheeler: 00:24:19

I imagine you wouldn't be doing what you're doing if you didn't have some hope and optimism for the future. What is. Well, you know, what is it that gives you hope?

Pamela Hemphill: 00:24:27

Our history. Now, you might be more schooled in our history than me, I'm sure. However, what I mean is shows that fascism has never won so far.

You know, we fight back on that. And I'm just hoping that all of us can encourage all of us to keep talking, keep pushing back, get those Republicans out there pushing back on Trump.

What is going on with them? You know, where's their courage? They got to stop, you know, this thing about money and power. Are afraid what Trump's going to do to You. Oh, my God.

Well, I don't know. I, I just want to meet my maker with a clean heart, that I did everything I could. But they, they did an oath to the Constitution.

So we hold them at higher standards. Fact that they're not push Donald Trump is just appalling. I mean, what are they doing?

David Wheeler: 00:25:15

I find it amazing. Seems like the most courageous person I've seen in the week that Trump's been in office was the female bishop.

Pamela Hemphill: 00:25:21

Yes.

David Wheeler: 00:25:22

Courage to his face has to be, you know, compassionate. And it seems like, you know, everybody else is afraid to do that. So I really commend her. I commend her for having the courage to do the right thing.

Pamela Hemphill: 00:25:37

I knew the minute though I saw it, I said, oh, no, he is going to be on his list. I knew it. Look at that face he gave. Oh, no, you, he, he was so angry. And then that reporter, he said, no, I didn't like the sermon.

Because, see, he is a dangerous narcissist. He don't care about you. You better be going along everything he wants or you're on his list.

I did meet a lady that had worked with him and she can't remember exactly some department would Interior, you know, decorating or something, but she had to go to some of the meetings. She says he was the most angriest, meanest guy. We were always on edge and afraid to talk back to him or not talk back to him.

Disrespectful, but disagree with him. Really? She says, yes. He's not this nice person that he can smile out there. He's horrible.

Yeah, I, I think I relate to him and what my ex husband, he was a narcissist and they can be so nice out in public and smile. But do you see how he treats people with the media and everybody's really rude and I'm not done yet. I'm not finished. Be quiet.

I mean, he's fine and they like that. I don't get it.

Colonel Mo Davis: 00:26:46

Pardon, Pam?

Pamela Hemphill: 00:26:47

Oh, we're doing all we can. I sent a second email to my probation officer. I talked to my lawyer.

Well, he's not my lawyer anymore, but the one that handled my case for January 6th. He said I was on the list. We've talked to the, Let me see the name of the office of the pardon of attorney. We sent an email.

I don't know what's going on because I want to, I want to get on this. What do I have to do to refuse this pardon? Help you?

Colonel Mo Davis: 00:27:14

Are you the first person in history that's Asked to get off a pardon list?

Pamela Hemphill: 00:27:18

No, I just heard. Do you know his name? Michael. Jason. Jason Riddle. Now he just came out the last few days. He's a J6 defendant.

He hasn't been out like publicly, like I have for the last year and a half. Maybe what I've been sharing is, may create a ripple of effect. I hope, that's my Hope that these J6ers will come out publicly and refuse his pardon.

But that's what I was told.

Colonel Mo Davis: 00:27:43

And it's ironic because they all claim they didn't do anything wrong. So what do they need a pardon for in the first place?

Pamela Hemphill: 00:27:49

Yeah, but isn't a pardon of admission of guilt?

Colonel Mo Davis: 00:27:52

I think so. So, so what have you learned out of all this, Pam?

I mean, you know, let's kind of take a couple steps back and you've been through quite an experience that I'm sure you wished you hadn't. What, what are the big things that you have learned as a, as a grandma out in Idaho about our country, about our politics and about our people?

Pamela Hemphill: 00:28:12

Well, there's, in our big book, there's a quote by Herbert Spencer. What leaves a man in everlasting ignorance is contempt prior to investigation. And that has been my character defect that I jump into things.

This is for me only, without research, without hearing both sides of the story. So that's what I'm going to do from now on. I'll never jump into something.

I'm going to listen to other people, get their opinion first, do a little research and then go by my own heart.

You know, what I think is right to do, but at least be open minded enough to hear both sides of this story, not just one, the Republicans and the Democrats, and make my own informed decision that fits my values and morals. Does that make sense?

Colonel Mo Davis: 00:28:58

It's a lot of sense. You know, what are your thoughts on the future of Trump?

Pamela Hemphill: 00:29:02

w much you know about Project: 2025

Trump is just their wolf king, his chaos junkie. Because look at all the chaos he's creating right now just to keep us focused on one thing, now another, and now another.

It's crazy making and he'll continue and it's going to get worse unless we start pushing back and pushing back heavy. This is just a little lightweight right now. Didn't even Hitler hide a lot of stuff from the German people? Do you know the history.

They will be terrifying. I hope I'm wrong, but not what I've seen from him and not what I've heard from him.

I think we need to listen to him because he's telling us what he's going to do. There's no secrets. They don't care. They got plan B. I don't know if you know about plan B.

Ivan Rackland, Michael Flynn, and now they've hooked up with Ammon Bundy. They have plan B. They said Biden pardons these people like the J6 committee and everybody else.

Well, their plan B, since they can't use the DOJ to go after them. Now their plan B. And this is how they interpret the Constitution.

They get these shares and that's what Michael Flynn had done throughout the tour, collecting and talking to these sheriffs where they have their own grand jury. They will arrest official and take them to their own grand jury and try them for treason.

And I have a video that I went to the training where the guy says, this guy should be hung for treason. This is serious, what they're doing and planning. And it's supposed to be under the rights of the Constitution. Oh, my God.

I know this sounds crazy, but I have enough. I've connected the dots and I've been. Racklind has that list. Are you familiar with Ivan Racklin and his list?

Colonel Mo Davis: 00:30:50

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm surprised that Mo and I aren't on it.

Pamela Hemphill: 00:30:53

Well, I have the pictures. He's with Ammon Bundy, Cliven Bundy and his son with Trump. They're all connected now. And this is what they're going to plan to do. I don't know.

Winner. Well, now that they got the proud boys, you know, they can get 25 people for a grand jury. I thought, is this legal?

And of course, it did some research. It's not, but they, you know how I'm in Bundy and all of them, they're interpreting the Constitution the way they, you know.

And then a person like me that's not schooled enough goes with it, believes them, you know, and they will do their own grand jury. They're gonna. Oh, scared me.

David Wheeler: 00:31:28

It seems like to me, you know, both, both the Bible and the Constitution are probably two documents they haven't read, but they have some. They have some very firm beliefs about what both of them say. I think they ought to. They ought to take the time and sit down and read them and.

And find out what the truth is.

Pamela Hemphill: 00:31:45

Yeah. But with everything they twisted to fit.

Colonel Mo Davis: 00:31:47

Them, these folks have to hit rock bottom before anything is really going to change, let's be honest. And we're not.

Pamela Hemphill: 00:31:53

I know.

Colonel Mo Davis: 00:31:54

Rock bottom. Are we?

Pamela Hemphill: 00:31:55

Well, but we can still be pushing back and letting them know that what they're trying to do is not going to be okay. I mean, it's Martin Luther King, Rosa parts. They gave us an example.

Just do the right thing, no matter what they're screaming about, you know, that we're not going to let. Stand by and let. No. Oh, no, sorry. You know, good luck. You're going to hear from me big time. And.

But we got to get that collective throughout the nation. One person can't do this.

But the right people getting out there talking and, and making the Congress accountable and say, yeah, do you want to be elected? Isn't that what you're here for? For we the people, Right? Who are you here for? Are you here for Trump? Are you here for we the people?

You got to confront them. Confront them hard. I mean, remember the movie Mr. Smith goes to Washington? Yeah. You know, you got to get that bad cop going a little bit out there.

Not bad cop, but really strong and not afraid of it. Let him scream. Let them yell. But they're going to, oh, I'm going to come get you. Bam. Okay, well, come get me. But I'm going to keep on speaking.

Come get me. What are you going to do, kill me? You know, I mean, people are afraid. I know. And they feel hopeless. And I'm hearing that.

And I heard that when Trump was elected, the suicide hotline went crazy. But we could do what we can to get the message out there. Don't give up. Don't lose your faith. Come on, you guys will push back on fascism.

We are going to win. You know, in the movie, the bad guy looks like he's winning all through the movie until the end. And this will happen this way.

Trump is not going to win if we the people will stand up and push back on him, legally and peacefully, of course, always. But through the law and with the Constitution, that's our weapon.

David Wheeler: 00:33:38

You remind me of Fannie Lou Hamer, you know, who said that if they knocked her down, I'm going to fall forward and I'm going to fall 5, 5ft, 4 inches forward in the fight for freedom. You remind me of that.

Pamela Hemphill: 00:33:52

I, I guess that's a compliment.

David Wheeler: 00:33:54

Yeah, it certainly is. Meant one. I, you know, I really do appreciate you giving us some of your time. And, and I think you give me hope.

I mean, you really are giving me some inspiration to keep fighting the fight that. Yeah, things aren't hopeless. We. We can. We can get through this.

Pamela Hemphill: 00:34:10

We can. Together, we can.

David Wheeler: 00:34:12

Well, thank you for all you've done and all that you're doing. You said you're a real inspiration.

Pamela Hemphill: 00:34:16

Oh, we. I honor both of you for what you've been doing, too. So you know that. Right?

David Wheeler: 00:34:22

Well, thank you.

Pamela Hemphill: 00:34:23

Yeah. I appreciate you. We knew more of you out there.

David Wheeler: 00:34:26

There's a lot of us. We just got. We gotta all stand up together.

Pamela Hemphill: 00:34:30

We. We will. They've. They don't realize they're underestimating the Democrat party, I'll tell you that. Right.

David Wheeler: 00:34:35

Well, we've got to get her. We got to get our act together.

Pamela Hemphill: 00:34:38

But you're getting there.

David Wheeler: 00:34:40

We'll try. Thank you so much.

Colonel Mo Davis: 00:34:43

I learned.

I worked for Barack Obama when he ran the first time around, and one of the things I learned from him was kind of hang back for a little bit and let's see how the other side reacts and what they do and then formulate a plan and then come at them with both barrels. So I think you're right, Pamela. I think that's.

Democrats are kind of hanging back right now, but over time, I think they'll get stronger and the messaging will be a little bit better, too.

Pamela Hemphill: 00:35:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I believe that.

Colonel Mo Davis: 00:35:10

Okay. Well, Pamela Hemphill, thank you so much for joining us from Idaho today.

And our best to Michael as well, who has been very helpful in setting this up, and I know you're leaning on him. You're a delightful person and inspiration, and thank you for joining Muck.

Pamela Hemphill: 00:35:26

Oh, well, thank you. Any way I can help, let me know.

Host: 00:35:30

This has been Muck U, hosted by Colonel Mo Davis and David Wheeler and produced by American Muckrakers.

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