Episode 2

full
Published on:

17th Jan 2025

Bigfoot, Bourbon, and the January 6th Committee: A Conversation with Denver Riggleman

Denver Riggleman, former Congressman and author, shares his unique journey from counterterrorism to distilling whiskey and his experiences on the January 6th committee. Riggleman discusses the challenges he faced in starting Silverback Distillery in Virginia, including regulatory hurdles and battles with lobbyists, which ultimately fueled his interest in politics. As he reflects on the state of the Republican Party and the broader political landscape, he critiques the lack of toughness among Democrats and the effectiveness of Republican messaging. The conversation also touches on Riggleman's potential run for lieutenant governor of Virginia as an independent candidate, highlighting the need for a new approach to politics that breaks away from traditional party lines. With a blend of personal anecdotes and insights into the current political climate, this episode captures the complexities of modern governance and the importance of standing up for democracy.

Denver Riggleman’s journey from a former Congressman to a distiller and back to the political fray paints a nuanced portrait of an individual navigating the complexities of modern American life. The conversation opens with Riggleman sharing the genesis of Silverback Distillery, born from a trip to Scotland where his wife developed a passion for distilling. This personal story offers insight into the dedication and hard work required to establish a successful distillery in Virginia, a state notorious for its stringent alcohol regulations. Riggleman’s anecdotes reveal the trials and tribulations faced by entrepreneurs in the liquor industry, reflecting a larger narrative about the intersection of passion, business, and regulatory hurdles. His enthusiasm for bourbon is palpable, illustrating how personal interests can shape professional trajectories in unexpected ways.

Transitioning into the political realm, Riggleman provides a candid assessment of the Republican Party's evolution, particularly in light of the January 6th events. He discusses his experiences on the January 6th Committee, shedding light on the challenges of investigating a politically charged incident fraught with misinformation. Riggleman critiques both the media and the political establishment for their failure to adequately address the underlying issues that led to the insurrection, emphasizing the importance of data analytics and counterterrorism expertise in understanding such complex events. His reflections on the media’s sensationalism and the political landscape highlight a growing concern about the erosion of democratic norms and the rise of misinformation as a tool for political gain.

As the dialogue progresses, Riggleman contemplates a return to politics, specifically considering a run for lieutenant governor as an independent candidate. He expresses a desire to disrupt the traditional two-party system, advocating for a more pragmatic and fact-based approach to governance. His vision for a new political narrative challenges listeners to reflect on their own political beliefs and the importance of supporting candidates who prioritize integrity and transparency over party loyalty. Riggleman’s journey serves as a call to action for those disillusioned with the current political landscape, encouraging engagement and participation in shaping a more inclusive and representative political future.

Takeaways:

  • Denver Riggleman shares the unique journey from counterterrorism to bourbon distilling, highlighting his entrepreneurial spirit.
  • The challenges of starting a distillery in Virginia illustrate the complexities of navigating state regulations.
  • Riggleman discusses the bizarre political narrative surrounding his Bigfoot book during his congressional campaign.
  • He emphasizes the importance of data and technology in investigating the events of January 6th.
  • The podcast explores the stark differences between the Democratic and Republican approaches to winning elections.
  • Riggleman reflects on the need for a more robust independent political movement in America.

Links referenced in this episode:

Transcript
Denver Riggleman:

Foreign.

David Wheeler:

Welcome to Muck you Episode two with Denver Riggleman, former member of Congress from Virginia and author of breach available on Amazon.com as well as audible.

David Wheeler:

Welcome to the show.

Denver Riggleman:

Thank you so much.

Denver Riggleman:

It's an honor to be here, buddy.

Denver Riggleman:

And I think we're going to have a lot of fun today.

David Wheeler:

We sure are.

David Wheeler:

And my co host, Colonel Mo Davis is here as well from Asheville today.

David Wheeler:

Welcome, Mo.

Colonel Mo Davis:

Hey, it's good to be here.

David Wheeler:

All right, well, let's get right into it.

David Wheeler:

So known for former member of Congress Virginia, but you're also known as Mr.

David Wheeler:

Bigfoot and Mr.

David Wheeler:

Bourbon.

David Wheeler:

So let's talk about the important things first.

Denver Riggleman:

Let's talk about the Bourbon.

David Wheeler:

How did you guys get into that?

Denver Riggleman:

Well, you know, it's funny, you know, a lot of people know me, you know, either from Kyr says anywhere six committee, but pretty well known.

Denver Riggleman:

I had a lot of good friends to those former Air Force.

Denver Riggleman:

I had actually companies in counterterrorism analysis and data really in data parsing.

Denver Riggleman:

Right.

Denver Riggleman:

Aggregation and using data for targeting.

Denver Riggleman:

istilling because, because in:

Denver Riggleman:

And I had asked her, I'm like, hey, you've been following me around since we were 19 years old.

Denver Riggleman:

We got married pretty young, David.

Denver Riggleman:

So I said, you've been following me around, what do you want to do?

Denver Riggleman:

And we were in Scotland on vacation and she had fallen in love with this 80 year old plus distiller at Ben Nevis Distillery in Fort Williams, Scotland.

Denver Riggleman:

And they had gone around for hours and she came up with like, I want to make liquor.

Denver Riggleman:

And so we started from scratch.

Denver Riggleman:

We didn't know anything.

Denver Riggleman:

So we, she, we sent her to apprentice, we got consultants, we built the building ourselves.

Denver Riggleman:

We have 50 acres in Acton, Virginia on the Rockfish River.

Denver Riggleman:

She did it all and now she's the CEO.

Denver Riggleman:

And so it took us about year one, year, four months and two weeks, David, to actually build a distillery and to get open.

Denver Riggleman:

And now we've been in business for over 10 years.

Denver Riggleman:

So it really was a result of what I did in counterterrorism and data analytics.

David Wheeler:

It always ends up tying together, doesn't it?

Denver Riggleman:

Well, my whole, yeah, well my whole life before Congress was really hunting terrorists and making whiskey.

Denver Riggleman:

That was pretty much it, you know.

Denver Riggleman:

And so, you know, so now, you know, now I have my own AI company too.

Denver Riggleman:

So you know, Mr.

Denver Riggleman:

Bourbon, Mr.

Denver Riggleman:

Bigfoot, Mr.

Denver Riggleman:

AI and you know, we're doing such incredible things there.

Denver Riggleman:

But really is, it's, it's a, it's what happened on January 6th, it really sparked me to start my third tech company.

Denver Riggleman:

Actually, David was.

Denver Riggleman:

Was because of all of that.

David Wheeler:

All right, but let's go back to the bourbon.

David Wheeler:

Sorry, gentlemen.

David Wheeler:

What's the name of the brand and how can folks taste it?

Denver Riggleman:

So Silverback Distillery.

Denver Riggleman:

We have distilleries in Virginia, the Poconos.

Denver Riggleman:

We sell almost all of our product out of our distilleries and do pretty well, but we are in Washington, D.C.

Denver Riggleman:

dupont Circle at B Street Wines.

Denver Riggleman:

We also have distribution Louisiana, Kentucky, and slightly in Pennsylvania.

Denver Riggleman:

So that's it, right?

Denver Riggleman:

You get all our distilleries.

Denver Riggleman:

You can even go online if you're in one of the states we can ship to.

Denver Riggleman:

So we are.

Denver Riggleman:

We're all over, but we don't make quite enough because we sell out so quickly, which is sometimes a bad problem to add, not a good one.

Denver Riggleman:

But we do make some incredible spirits, but mostly go online@sbdistillery.com or you can go to our distilleries or buy them in select stores in Kentucky, Louisiana and Washington, D.C.

Denver Riggleman:

know you had a little.

David Wheeler:

Bit of a battle with government in Virginia over that distillery.

David Wheeler:

Tell us a little bit about that, because I think it says a lot about your personality and your tenacity.

Denver Riggleman:

Well, you know, the worst place to start a distillery in the country is Virginia at abc.

Denver Riggleman:

There's a lot of blobbying and hate distilleries, and most of those are people who sell alcohol, like beer manufacturers, beer wholesalers, but also the wine distributor.

Denver Riggleman:

So not only did I go to war with them for years and still at war for them because of their rent seeking behavior in their lobby, but also Dominion tried to run a pipeline across my actual property while I was fighting the individuals, you know, not only abc, but the lobbying firms.

Denver Riggleman:

And why I got into politics until I was 47 or 48 was because of me fighting the regulatory burden.

Denver Riggleman:

The lobbyists.

David Wheeler:

Right.

Denver Riggleman:

Individuals, you know, eminent domain.

Denver Riggleman:

I just felt like we were under siege once we built that distillery.

Denver Riggleman:

And they wanted to run the actual pipeline right across our water lines, right where our barrel house was.

Denver Riggleman:

It was incredible, David, that I sort of just got dropped right into literally land lobbying and regulatory wars, which really opened my eyes to how much I didn't know about not only regulatory structures, but how you could be absolutely overwhelmed by lobbying and special interests.

Denver Riggleman:

And, you know, for me, as a former CEO at that time, I was a senior consultant at the Pentagon for electronic warfare and countermeasures.

Denver Riggleman:

Everything I'd done in my life serving my country, I thought it was incredibly unfair.

Denver Riggleman:

And I said, this can happen to me.

Denver Riggleman:

It can happen to anyone.

Denver Riggleman:

And that's really why I got interested in politics, was because of the wars that I've had.

Denver Riggleman:

You know, we called it the Whiskey Rebellion, but it was the wars that I had in all of those sectors simultaneously over three or four years and finally sparked me to get into politics.

Colonel Mo Davis:

Know that Virginia is any better or worse than North Carolina as far as that goes.

Colonel Mo Davis:

We just had our.

Colonel Mo Davis:

The last county in North Carolina that was a.

Colonel Mo Davis:

A dry county, I think it was two years ago.

Colonel Mo Davis:

Finally now allows alcohol.

Colonel Mo Davis:

You know, when I was growing up, all of western North Carolina were dry counties, and every time it came up for a vote, it was the Baptist and the bootleggers got together to.

Colonel Mo Davis:

To keep.

Colonel Mo Davis:

To keep it out.

Colonel Mo Davis:

So it's really ironic, you know, I live in Asheville, which is the beer capital of America.

Colonel Mo Davis:

If you go back a few decades, it would have seemed unimaginable that because, you know, the world is supposed to spin off its axes if you had alcohol in western North Carolina.

Colonel Mo Davis:

But we're the beer capital now.

Denver Riggleman:

Well, when we go up and try to lobby for better laws for distillers, like, for instance, we can only serve 3 ounces per day to any customer.

Denver Riggleman:

We pay a 34% bottle tax, the highest tax in the country out of your own distillery.

Denver Riggleman:

It's insane, right?

Denver Riggleman:

And.

Denver Riggleman:

But we went up there, we had actually the lobbying groups for the, you know, backers, things like that.

Denver Riggleman:

And when we are at the planning commission meetings, Mo they call my wife and I murderers if we're going to sell liquor.

Denver Riggleman:

So we still, definitely still have that sort of Bible belt mentality.

Denver Riggleman:

You know, what else is that?

Denver Riggleman:

Blue states are so much easier to do business than red states when it comes to alcohol.

Denver Riggleman:

Their.

Denver Riggleman:

Their laws are better, their structures are better, their taxes are much lower.

Denver Riggleman:

It is 10 times cheaper for me to sell alcohol out of a distillery in California than it is in Virginia.

Colonel Mo Davis:

Yeah.

Colonel Mo Davis:

You know, it's ironic.

Colonel Mo Davis:

They probably, you know, the most famous distillery has got to be Jack Daniels, which is in a dry county.

Colonel Mo Davis:

You don't know when you're in the Air Force on aver went to.

Colonel Mo Davis:

Was it Tullahoma Air Station or whatever it was there?

Denver Riggleman:

No, not when I was in the air Force and did not go there.

Colonel Mo Davis:

Well, yeah, but it was right next to where the distillery was.

Colonel Mo Davis:

And you could go there under the law.

Colonel Mo Davis:

They could give it away so you could go there, you could sample it, but you couldn't buy it.

David Wheeler:

So, Denver, the second part of my question, then I'll let Mo and you maybe talk a little bit about the Air Force experiences you both had, but you also, in one of your campaigns, got mired in the Bigfoot controversy.

David Wheeler:

Tell us about that and then make sure everybody knows all about the book.

Denver Riggleman:

In my first campaign in:

Denver Riggleman:

Her name was Leslie Coburn.

Denver Riggleman:

And I had just done the only I believe op ed against white supremacy that a Republican had written because Charlottesville is in my district.

Denver Riggleman:

You know what happened in:

Denver Riggleman:

Yeah, yeah.

Denver Riggleman:

So I wrote an op ed against white supremacy and that, you know, that Republicans need to reject anything to do with, you know, white supremacy, white nationalism, Christian nationalism, you know, sort of this Western chauvinism.

Denver Riggleman:

Look at things.

Denver Riggleman:

The day after my opponent tweeted that I was a Nazi loving Bigfoot erotica enthusiast, or davote, based on my book Bigfoot, it's complicated.

Denver Riggleman:

And my first book, you know, my second book, the Breach, was a New York Times bestseller.

Denver Riggleman:

I saw a lot of this as a self published book.

Denver Riggleman:

You know, when you track Al Qaeda, isis, look at radicalization, look at belief systems.

Denver Riggleman:

And even when you're looking at, you know, way far right, you know, Christian evangelicalism, or you're looking at even, you know, let's talk about the Jewish religion, right?

Denver Riggleman:

And some of the things that happen there, when they go way down the line, you, you know, when you get very, very, I would say, fundamentalist in your religious beliefs, right, it can cause you to do awful things.

Denver Riggleman:

But I wanted to do a book where it wasn't exactly calling out, you know, how that happens.

Denver Riggleman:

But how could I actually present it in a way that was not threatening?

Denver Riggleman:

So I used Bigfoot belief and there is four different Bigfoot believer types.

Denver Riggleman:

And in Bigfoot, it's complicated.

Denver Riggleman:

So their lives have been transformed by these insane belief systems.

Denver Riggleman:

Well, they saw the title of the book and the fact that on Instagram on my birthday.

Denver Riggleman:

And Mo knows this is true.

Denver Riggleman:

A military buddy of mine drew a picture of me with my head on a Bigfoot body with a big blackout phallus.

Denver Riggleman:

And I put it on my Instagram as a joke because it was my birthday.

Denver Riggleman:

They used that plus the book to say I was in the Bigfoot porn.

Denver Riggleman:

And so, you know, it was actually disinformation.

Denver Riggleman:

It was a lie.

Denver Riggleman:

She knew that was wrong.

Denver Riggleman:

And I know that from her campaign now and from the people who work for it.

Denver Riggleman:

She just lied about it because she was losing.

Denver Riggleman:

And you know, really did strike me, even if somebody had been in disinformation, that the major papers carried the story and they were sly about it.

Denver Riggleman:

They like, is he into Bigfoot erotica?

Denver Riggleman:

And then at the end of the interview they're like, well, no.

Denver Riggleman:

And there was no proof of it, you know, and that, and that really showed me also the complicity of the media and clickbait.

Denver Riggleman:

And really some of the problems we see today is the media's inability to actually live up to their responsibility.

Denver Riggleman:

So, you know, I'm in a weird place, right?

Denver Riggleman:

Is that as somebody who, you know, knows disinformation so well, I was able to react to that disinformation in a way that was able to diffuse it for the most part.

Denver Riggleman:

But people still have this weird belief that somehow I'm a Bigfoot enthusia, a Bigfoot pornography enthusiast and like to run through the woods covered in peanut butter and bacon, you know, so that's really, you know, where it came from.

Denver Riggleman:

Was a really awful human being that was running against me in a congressional race.

Denver Riggleman:

And you know, and then.

Denver Riggleman:

But you know, she got her just desserts.

Denver Riggleman:

I beat her.

Denver Riggleman:

But now thank beat for David and Mo.

Denver Riggleman:

But she was also accused of kink shaming me by the left, which was pretty interesting that her own people turned on her because she shouldn't be kink shaming somebody just because, you know, they might be a Bigfoot furry or something.

Denver Riggleman:

So yeah, so it was a nutty time to see how politics can be that dirty.

Denver Riggleman:

But also that most politicians lie and that's something I never wanted to do.

Denver Riggleman:

And she was just a liar and.

David Wheeler:

Yeah, I bet probably helped your campaign, didn't it?

David Wheeler:

That's your name.

Denver Riggleman:

It gave me national recognition.

Denver Riggleman:

You know, I got, I got intelligence for people that.

Denver Riggleman:

So they were begging her not to do it.

Denver Riggleman:

That would put me on the map.

Denver Riggleman:

And also she was wrong and, and both of those happened, right.

Denver Riggleman:

People started laughing about it like this is ludicrous because it's so stupid and it made her look like an idiot.

Denver Riggleman:

So even though the first week was awful for me and had death threats and people invited me to do weird things with.

Denver Riggleman:

But yeah, my wife and I are like, nah, we're not into furries, you know, so.

Denver Riggleman:

But yeah, it was, it was a really weird time for us to go through that.

Denver Riggleman:

I think a real learning lesson for me on politics and the evil that sometimes involved with the lie but on the flip side, it didn't work out for me.

David Wheeler:

That's right.

David Wheeler:

That's right.

David Wheeler:

So over you.

Colonel Mo Davis:

Mo yeah, Denver, I'm curious with your background, we've got the confirmation hearings underway right now.

Colonel Mo Davis:

But what you're thinking is particularly with Pete Headset, you know, for DOD and Ratcliffe for, for the CIA.

Denver Riggleman:

Well, you know, I think the best pick should be really sad.

Denver Riggleman:

Mo is Ratcliffe.

Denver Riggleman:

So yeah, we should cry about that because I, I know John, I worked with John, and he certainly doesn't have the background or even the ability, I think, to run that organization with the type of efficiency or effect or efficacy.

Denver Riggleman:

As far as Pete Hagseth, I just think he's a slug, maybe one of the worst picks we could ever have for SEC depth.

Denver Riggleman:

Maybe the worst pick, I would say ever identify.

Denver Riggleman:

And just watching him yesterday, the smirks that, I mean, we have a Fox News personality with really no other talent being picked just because of loyalty.

Denver Riggleman:

And I think what scares me even more than Exit is Tulsi Gabbard for DNI right now.

Denver Riggleman:

And so really maybe the least competent, least effective picks in the history of the United States, all because of loyalty.

Denver Riggleman:

And what scares me just isn't Trump, but it's that those people actually can have power and they're still reduced, but they're also, you know, if you look at Exit, he really leans towards that Christian nationalism, you know, slant.

Denver Riggleman:

Tulsi Gavert was a member of a cult.

Denver Riggleman:

You know, you look at John Ratcliffe, he's just adult.

Denver Riggleman:

So I think, I think that's what you have, right, is you have the incomprehens, adults, the slugs, right and the immoral right that have been chosen if you look at what happened in that gate.

Denver Riggleman:

So I think that's the issue that we have right now.

Colonel Mo Davis:

MO yeah, you know, for a lot of years I was a big advocate when I talked to young folks, you know, to consider a career in the military.

Colonel Mo Davis:

But I'm not doing that now.

Colonel Mo Davis:

It, to me, it's alarming having a commander in chief and a potential SEC death who can't meet the minimum standards we demand of an 18 year old that walks into a recruiting session, you.

Denver Riggleman:

Know, listen, Colonel, right?

Denver Riggleman:

Colonel Davis, I got out, I was a mustang.

Denver Riggleman:

I got out as a captain, NSA Special Projects.

Denver Riggleman:

I was enlisted in the information.

Denver Riggleman:

When I look at what's happening right now, I wonder what happens to our military morale but also to the belief systems, the military.

Denver Riggleman:

We already have a radicalization issue and some versions of military.

Denver Riggleman:

So Mo, my Biggest fear is what happens if you have a sexual abuser who's a commander in chief and maybe a sexual deviant who's SecDef.

Denver Riggleman:

And I think that's the.

Denver Riggleman:

I just don't even know.

Denver Riggleman:

I feel like a stranger in my own country sometimes.

Denver Riggleman:

So you served and has taken the oath that you have served.

Denver Riggleman:

So, you know, it just, it gives me pause.

David Wheeler:

Mo ran against a guy here in North Carolina, a massive thorn, I think.

David Wheeler:

You guys.

David Wheeler:

What was your interaction with that knucklehead, really?

Denver Riggleman:

I was on the way out when he was on the way in, so I didn't see Madison and Marjorie Taylor Green and things like that, but I just looked at him because I knew their belief systems already and you know, I did.

Denver Riggleman:

I didn't know if their stupidity was an airborne virus.

Denver Riggleman:

So I didn't get.

Denver Riggleman:

But you know, Madison is so unserious and so prophetic of a human being called basically on his background and the.

Denver Riggleman:

In the videos that he did too, which you guys might be aware of.

Denver Riggleman:

But you know, the thing that's.

Denver Riggleman:

If I may, you know, argue with myself when he was talking about the sex parties, orgies and stuff like that in the gop.

Denver Riggleman:

Not exactly true.

Denver Riggleman:

But then when you look at somebody like a Matt Gates, you know, you start to wonder.

Denver Riggleman:

Right.

Denver Riggleman:

But I also knew some of our individuals that were really into some bizarre stuff, even, you know, having pictures of their conquests.

David Wheeler:

Right.

Denver Riggleman:

That sometimes they bring to the House floor.

Denver Riggleman:

So I was not real enthralled, David, with that House membership, uh, especially on the right.

Denver Riggleman:

I was a Republican and the Democrats seem to be much more together as far as not maybe sharing pornography, which was maybe should be your baseline of being a member of Congress.

Denver Riggleman:

You shouldn't do that.

Denver Riggleman:

I think Madison Cawthorn really was sort of the.

Denver Riggleman:

Gosh, what the.

Denver Riggleman:

The guiding light of depravity.

Denver Riggleman:

Right.

Denver Riggleman:

In the GOP while he was in.

Denver Riggleman:

So there you go.

Denver Riggleman:

That's what I think about him.

David Wheeler:

Yeah.

Colonel Mo Davis:

Yeah.

Colonel Mo Davis:

You know, it's funny because you've got like Senator Kennedy from Louisiana, you know, Harvard educated guy who kind of plays the country bumpkin role, you know, kind of.

Colonel Mo Davis:

Yeah.

Colonel Mo Davis:

Place plays dumb when he's really not.

Colonel Mo Davis:

But with Cawthorn, he wasn't playing.

Colonel Mo Davis:

It was dumb to the bone, but.

Denver Riggleman:

Oh, my gosh.

Denver Riggleman:

Yeah, what is it?

Denver Riggleman:

What is it?

Denver Riggleman:

Pretty skin deep, but uglies all the.

David Wheeler:

Way to the bone.

Denver Riggleman:

Bo.

Denver Riggleman:

Yeah, right.

Denver Riggleman:

That's pretty much Madison.

Colonel Mo Davis:

Well, it's amazing.

Colonel Mo Davis:

I don't know any other important decision a person would make.

Colonel Mo Davis:

You Know whether it's choosing a doctor or a pilot or an electrician, where you'd want the dumbest, least qualified person you could get to do the job.

Colonel Mo Davis:

But that seems to be the standard in politics.

Colonel Mo Davis:

It's really a shame.

Colonel Mo Davis:

I argued, you know, when I was running, when I first started, I would talk about people voting against their interests and all the consultants said, oh, you got to stop saying that.

Colonel Mo Davis:

You're suggesting that people are stupid.

Colonel Mo Davis:

It's like, well, shit, they are, because you were suggesting.

Denver Riggleman:

Mo, that's enough.

David Wheeler:

God, God forbid somebody tell them the truth once in a while.

Denver Riggleman:

Amen to that.

Denver Riggleman:

Amen to that.

Denver Riggleman:

Mo and I, you know, I think again, when you talk about lowering the standards, look at our commander in chief, right?

Denver Riggleman:

I mean, I, I think ignorance is easily weaponized and, you know, it's, it's easily mined also for money.

Denver Riggleman:

I mean, you have, this is the new grifter politician culture that sort of nobody wants to really attack.

Denver Riggleman:

Crazy is not party specific.

Denver Riggleman:

Right.

Denver Riggleman:

I always say that, you know, Mo and David, that, you know, but the far right's in a hold my beer moment.

Denver Riggleman:

But I don't think the two party system can hold up to social media and the disinformation out there.

Denver Riggleman:

And I think we need a new way, um, and we need something to somehow moderate the fringes and the lunatics.

Denver Riggleman:

But you know, for the far right, you know, for people like the Cawthorns, the Marjorie Taylor Greenes and the Lauren Bogarts and the Matt Gaetz, I just don't know how you fix stupid, but people enjoy stupid and they flock to it based on their belief systems or the fact that they just vote based on the letter behind their name.

Colonel Mo Davis:

I don't know if you saw it this week.

Colonel Mo Davis:

A day or two ago, there was a piece in the New York Times talking about proportional representation rather than this two party.

Colonel Mo Davis:

Didn't you know, the two party system has a way pushing people to the extremes and probably North Carolina is a good example.

Colonel Mo Davis:

If you look at this, you know, the November election on the House side, Republicans got 52% of the votes in North Carolina, but they got 72% of the seats in Congress.

Colonel Mo Davis:

So, you know, there's 48% of the North Carolina population that didn't vote for the Republicans were largely left unrepresented.

Colonel Mo Davis:

So this article was suggesting proportional representation that would have, you know, a broader, you know, than just the two party system that we've got now.

Denver Riggleman:

I just don't know how we get rid of the gerrymandering of districts Unless that proportional system takes into account, you know, where there's population centers.

Denver Riggleman:

I, I, you know, and it's, you know, just like here in Virginia, right.

Denver Riggleman:

My, my district was like a dragon riding a scooter, you know, it was the post gerrymandered district, you know, and, but my district was bigger than New Jersey.

Denver Riggleman:

It was over 10,000 square miles.

Denver Riggleman:

So I wonder, you know, how we do that because you're exactly right.

Denver Riggleman:

Gerrymandering, what is it only it's like between 40 and maybe in another year, 80 of the districts actually determine the election.

Denver Riggleman:

Right, Mo?

Denver Riggleman:

It's only right the sling districts are so small now in comparison to the 435 congressional districts.

Denver Riggleman:

Then what do we do?

Denver Riggleman:

Like, I don't, I don't even know how to fix this awful intransigent two party gerrymandering system that's completely corrupt.

Denver Riggleman:

And it's not just corrupt like quid pro quo or transactional.

Denver Riggleman:

I think the corruption is really just the rot that the party has accrued over decades and generations.

Denver Riggleman:

And I think that rock needs to be scraped out somehow.

Denver Riggleman:

And again, I think it goes back to, it just have to be people who want to, you know, breach the wall.

Denver Riggleman:

Right.

Denver Riggleman:

They want to be the first over to have truly independent runs where people don't caucus with either party.

Denver Riggleman:

How does that even happen?

Denver Riggleman:

Right.

Denver Riggleman:

How do you even make that happen?

Denver Riggleman:

And it's something I'd love to figure out, I'll tell you that.

Colonel Mo Davis:

Well, I think, you know, the public is, I think express their displeasure with the two party system.

Colonel Mo Davis:

And here in North Carolina, the largest voting block, you know, for voter registration is unaffiliated.

Colonel Mo Davis:

There are almost 3 million North Carolinians are register with is unaffiliated, which is over a half a million more than either the Democrats or the Republicans have.

Colonel Mo Davis:

So, you know, it's pretty clear that folks are not happy with the two party system.

Denver Riggleman:

I know they're not.

Denver Riggleman:

And you know, and I asked you and David, it's a real question, you know, is as I know David's probably been asking something about another type of run for me, not congressional.

Denver Riggleman:

I would never do that again.

Denver Riggleman:

I'd rather set myself on fire.

Denver Riggleman:

Yeah.

Denver Riggleman:

I wonder, you know, if people say they want it, Mo and David, if they're actually going to fund it.

Denver Riggleman:

You know, money drives politics, sadly, you know, and can you get the fundraising, the support, right.

Denver Riggleman:

To move forward on that?

David Wheeler:

Well, that's a beautiful segue into my question.

David Wheeler:

There's a little bit of scuttlebutt out there.

David Wheeler:

That you're looking at elected office again.

David Wheeler:

What are your thoughts?

David Wheeler:

What are you thinking about?

Denver Riggleman:

Well, you know, like I said before, even with any, even a statewide office, I was like, there's no way that I would run again.

Denver Riggleman:

But after Trump won, see, my wife and I, she, I sort of made her a promise.

Denver Riggleman:

Like after the insanity I went through, as you guys know, I was kicked out of the Republican Party pretty much for officiating a same sex wedding.

Denver Riggleman:

And then I voted to legalize marijuana.

Denver Riggleman:

Dear Lord.

Denver Riggleman:

You know, I, you know, I, I completely, completely became the tool, the Antichrist, as they called me.

Denver Riggleman:

You know, but, and also I just refused to, to kowtow to the committees and things like that.

Denver Riggleman:

And then to have a convention in a church where they brought in Confederate flags against me.

Denver Riggleman:

And it was pretty insane, right?

Denver Riggleman:

To have that kind of the League of the south and racist.

Denver Riggleman:

And I, and by the way, it's good to have those kind of enemies, right?

Denver Riggleman:

So it really defines who you are.

Denver Riggleman:

I lost in a church with only:

Denver Riggleman:

So it was pretty bitter and it really affected me mentally, physically.

Denver Riggleman:

And my wife's like, just, it's not worth it.

Denver Riggleman:

After Trump won, the night after Trump won.

Denver Riggleman:

And this is, this is just as true as can be.

Denver Riggleman:

She's like, honey.

Denver Riggleman:

And you know, she uses military language.

Denver Riggleman:

Mo.

Denver Riggleman:

So I want to let you know that.

Denver Riggleman:

David.

Colonel Mo Davis:

Yeah.

Denver Riggleman:

She goes, you're the only mfer I know that tells the truth.

Denver Riggleman:

And you need to get back into this because she, Trump came out and he's just an awful kind of human being.

Denver Riggleman:

So, you know, I called somebody like Denver, you should run for governor.

Denver Riggleman:

I really can't because of my new company and my fiduciary responsibilities.

Denver Riggleman:

Maybe I can, but I would cause definitely consternation with my investors in my advisory board.

Denver Riggleman:

The lieutenant governor is a part time position in Virginia that's statewide.

Denver Riggleman:

And would it give people the permission structure to vote for somebody outside of governor?

Denver Riggleman:

Because it's two different races in Virginia.

Denver Riggleman:

The cool thing.

Denver Riggleman:

And Mo.

Denver Riggleman:

David, not Virginia is the governor, Lieutenant governor.

Denver Riggleman:

Do not run on a combined ticket.

Denver Riggleman:

They run separately.

Denver Riggleman:

And you could have a Republican governor and a Democratic lieutenant governor.

Denver Riggleman:

It's happened.

Denver Riggleman:

You know, Virginia is very unique.

Denver Riggleman:

It's one term only.

Denver Riggleman:

You can do more than one term, but it can't be consecutive.

Denver Riggleman:

So, like, what would it be like to run statewide as a true independent?

Denver Riggleman:

So I have an exploratory committee, David.

Denver Riggleman:

I have people on board that people say they want to fund this.

Denver Riggleman:

We think we have to raise the lieutenant governor level between 10 and $15 million if people say they think they can get the people to do that.

Denver Riggleman:

But you know, the thing is I do run a very robust AI company.

Denver Riggleman:

I have multiple distilleries.

Denver Riggleman:

I have incredible amount of responsibilities.

Denver Riggleman:

Do I have the energy or even the wherewithal right to do this?

Denver Riggleman:

But I'm pissed off and I am so done with what's going on in this country that what if you did a true run as an independent where you refused to caucus and I want to see if it can work.

Denver Riggleman:

And plus I have pretty good name id.

Denver Riggleman:

You know guys, people know me.

Denver Riggleman:

You know I am a best selling author.

Denver Riggleman:

I did you know I was on the January 6th Committee, Congressman.

Denver Riggleman:

I've done media for the past three years.

Denver Riggleman:

I know more people know me now when I was some knuckle dragging backbencher.

Denver Riggleman:

So what if I gave a role and I'm better, I'm more mature, I don't kowtow.

Denver Riggleman:

But I'm not as mad or confrontational as I was five, six years ago.

Denver Riggleman:

I'm actually angrier.

Denver Riggleman:

I don't show it as and I think I've learned a lot and I've grown up in politics since I came into it so young.

Denver Riggleman:

I mean so new at 47.

Denver Riggleman:

I've only been in like six to seven years and only probably five years of that I even cared about it.

Denver Riggleman:

So that's where I'm at.

Denver Riggleman:

Do I even have the guts to do it again?

Denver Riggleman:

I think I do.

Denver Riggleman:

Do I have the finances?

Denver Riggleman:

Maybe.

Denver Riggleman:

Do I have the time?

Denver Riggleman:

Not sure.

Denver Riggleman:

Are people going to be angry in my company?

Denver Riggleman:

Maybe.

Denver Riggleman:

And what does it really look like when people say they support you?

Denver Riggleman:

Mo you know this people like run, run, run and then they forget to give you money or they won't take your calls.

Denver Riggleman:

So, you know, that's where I'm at on that right now.

Colonel Mo Davis:

David, I commend you and your wife because I'm it just seems like right now a lot of people are just giving up.

Colonel Mo Davis:

You know, they're just so disillusioned and disappointed that they're just, you know, giving up.

Colonel Mo Davis:

So we need people, you know, doing like you're doing and thinking about not giving up and getting out there and running and trying to make things better.

David Wheeler:

So, so what are the mechanics Denver?

David Wheeler:

When do you have to make a decision and you know, what kind of money you think, think you can raise?

Denver Riggleman:

I got to make a real decision in about two to three months because Virginia has All few elections.

Denver Riggleman:

The election is November 25th, David.

Denver Riggleman:

So I got to make that decision fairly soon.

Denver Riggleman:

I'd say within the next eight weeks.

Denver Riggleman:

And then I have to get signatures.

Denver Riggleman:

Right.

Denver Riggleman:

That made it very difficult for an independent to run.

Denver Riggleman:

I know that's surprising both of you.

Denver Riggleman:

So if you make that very difficult.

Denver Riggleman:

But I can do that too.

Denver Riggleman:

And I do think I can raise initially a few million just to see where we're at with digital.

Denver Riggleman:

Plus with my company, I can do things in AI and replicating myself that camera can't do.

Denver Riggleman:

I can actually put out 50 different AI denvers with different messaging simultaneously at lower cost.

Denver Riggleman:

So I'm wondering, can I also run the first pure technology campaign, the first real independent camp Virginia for who knows how long, but also a campaign where I can actually spend myself out, build my own infrastructure using technology.

Denver Riggleman:

We're trying to do all that, David.

Denver Riggleman:

So it's, it's going to be interesting.

David Wheeler:

Oh, man, you can do it.

David Wheeler:

Come on.

David Wheeler:

You started a.

David Wheeler:

You didn't, you didn't know anything about.

Denver Riggleman:

Yeah, no.

David Wheeler:

And you didn't know anything about Congress and you got into there.

David Wheeler:

You didn't know anything about being married.

David Wheeler:

You've got a very successful marriage.

David Wheeler:

I am 100% behind you, my friend.

David Wheeler:

I, I, I would be up there gathering signatures for you this weekend if, if you were in the race.

David Wheeler:

So let's do it.

David Wheeler:

Denver.

David Wheeler:

Let's make an announcement right now.

David Wheeler:

You're in, right?

Denver Riggleman:

I have to wait for my exploratory committee, David.

Denver Riggleman:

I have to right now without my wife knowing first.

Denver Riggleman:

I know my congressional race on Facebook without telling her which.

Denver Riggleman:

Oh, Jesus.

David Wheeler:

All right, so maybe you're not as good at that as I thought you were.

Denver Riggleman:

No.

Denver Riggleman:

And you got to remember too, I got stuff because I pranked my wife on our 15th year anniversary.

Denver Riggleman:

Instead of taking her to Hawaii, I took her on a Bigfoot expedition.

Denver Riggleman:

I thought it'd be funny.

Denver Riggleman:

It was not telling you.

Denver Riggleman:

I've made a lot of mistakes, David, in my life.

Denver Riggleman:

And yes, yes, I've been successful in marriage, but that's because my wife doesn't hate me yet.

Denver Riggleman:

So there you go.

Denver Riggleman:

So.

David Wheeler:

Nah, she's never gonna hate you.

David Wheeler:

Come on.

Denver Riggleman:

I listen.

Denver Riggleman:

She sort of wants me to do.

Denver Riggleman:

I, I do have people that have to make sure but weapon do share responsibilities.

Denver Riggleman:

There's an integrity thing there.

Denver Riggleman:

But on the other hand.

Denver Riggleman:

And you know, I have some pretty good policy ideas, but I want to ask you to this.

Denver Riggleman:

You know, everybody says we have to change it.

Denver Riggleman:

I think the main message is Everybody here in this audience is here because you want to change things.

Denver Riggleman:

Well, now here's your chance.

Denver Riggleman:

You don't have to right you.

Denver Riggleman:

Now you got to put your money where your mouth is and your boat where your mouth is.

Denver Riggleman:

If you want change and you want somebody who's the president of the Senate, who's an independent, that does a tie breaking vote on votes, that cares about Virginia more than whether he has an R or D behind his name, it's your chance.

Denver Riggleman:

That's it.

Denver Riggleman:

That's really the baseline message, guys.

Denver Riggleman:

There's I can go to policy and do all kinds of stuff, but do you want the same old, same old?

Denver Riggleman:

And if you do, fine.

Denver Riggleman:

If you don't, here I am.

Denver Riggleman:

That's it.

Denver Riggleman:

Yeah.

David Wheeler:

No, that's a winning message as far as I'm concerned.

David Wheeler:

So who would be your competition on the Democrat and Republican Republicans?

Denver Riggleman:

There's a couple of people, Pat Herty out of the Fairfax area actually, good guy guy, John Reed, who's a radio personality in Richmond.

Denver Riggleman:

Those are the only two Republicans I know about Democratic side, there's Lamar Stoney out, he's the mayor of Richmond.

Denver Riggleman:

And then you have four others that I've never heard of.

Denver Riggleman:

So you know, the one thing that I have gotten calls from from even Washington D.C.

Denver Riggleman:

think tanks and political consultant types is that this might be the weakest field for lieutenant governor they've seen in a long time.

Denver Riggleman:

And you guys gotta admit, I come on as a former J6 advisor, former Congressman Lincoln, lieutenant governor on an off year election for the elections are New Jersey and Virginia.

Denver Riggleman:

It would be sort of a national story if I'm running and I would probably piss off a lot of the Democrats or Republicans.

Denver Riggleman:

So that's the other thing I'm beginning is like you're going to put win some Sears in who's the probably the likely Republican nominee or you're going to put an Abigail Spamberger if you run.

Denver Riggleman:

So I'm getting both sides telling me I'm going to sway the election and I'm like, good, damn right.

Denver Riggleman:

Well how about this?

Denver Riggleman:

How about you just vote for me and let me see how I do as lieutenant governor.

Denver Riggleman:

We'll see what happens in the future.

Denver Riggleman:

And if you don't again, let's get on my back because I just go back to my distillery and sit in the speakeasy and run an AI company.

Denver Riggleman:

So you know, I don't make money on this.

Denver Riggleman:

This, this isn't my career.

David Wheeler:

Right, but Spanberger as governor and you as lieutenant governor would not be Too bad.

David Wheeler:

A combination, both intelligence officers.

Denver Riggleman:

Well, Abby and I are friends too, you know, David, so we're actually close friends.

Denver Riggleman:

And I was the only Republican to endorse a Democrat during the congressional races on Cameron.

Denver Riggleman:

I endorse Abby in the Southern District of Virginia.

Denver Riggleman:

So there you have it.

Colonel Mo Davis:

Denver.

Colonel Mo Davis:

I'm curious.

Colonel Mo Davis:

You know, people like yourself and you know, Joe Walsh and you know, Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger and even Barbara Comstock, you know, she represented the district when I lived in Northern Virginia, and I wasn't a big fan of hers.

Colonel Mo Davis:

But this last election, you know, I was really proud of her taking a stand.

Colonel Mo Davis:

Where do you folks go?

Colonel Mo Davis:

And clearly the Republican Party is, you know, is no longer a home for you.

Colonel Mo Davis:

And I can't, I can't see you guys being Democrats.

Colonel Mo Davis:

So what happens to those sensible, what used to be sensible Republicans, public.

Denver Riggleman:

Well, we had, you know, even talking to Barbara.

Denver Riggleman:

You know, Barbara and I are pretty close.

Denver Riggleman:

And by the way, Mo, Adam Kinzinger is on my value board for my company.

Denver Riggleman:

He's one of the ones who, who's like, dan, don't do it.

Denver Riggleman:

You know, so I think I'm doing this because I need to find something where I do have a place to go.

Denver Riggleman:

And, you know, I started this company because of January 6th.

Denver Riggleman:

I started because I saw the, the actual gaps in technology you need to do these massive investigations and the disinformation and open source intelligence is actually still so limited, especially when it comes to Teleph Text us.

Denver Riggleman:

I thought, you know, I'll start a company that defends democratic institutions using technology.

Denver Riggleman:

That is really the vision of why I started this company.

Denver Riggleman:

But, you know, you also have to be out there and I'm on media all the time.

Denver Riggleman:

So what if.

Denver Riggleman:

Well, what if we do have a third way and it's actually almost organic.

Denver Riggleman:

Instead of trying to be, you know, you know, these money people who actually do this sometimes to make money, you know, like, you know, label or forward party.

David Wheeler:

Right.

Denver Riggleman:

All these other parties, you know, there's a big money structure for them and they're structured like the major parties and how they collect money is.

Denver Riggleman:

Would it be organic?

Denver Riggleman:

Like, you know what, you can give me all the money you guys want, but I'm running Denver Riggle.

Denver Riggleman:

Denver freaking Riggle.

Denver Riggleman:

And if you don't like it, I don't care.

Denver Riggleman:

But what I mean, and what if you could actually craft a policy that's not just running up the middle, but actually uses facts and data, you know, as part of what your baseline policy is and Mo, that's the, that's the thing.

Denver Riggleman:

I wonder.

Denver Riggleman:

I don't know if it's possible in this world anymore with the tribalism and social media and the ability to, you know, find your own echo chamber and swim in it.

Denver Riggleman:

I mean, I don't know, but I think it's got to be where we caucus with the people that defend democracy.

Denver Riggleman:

But there's got to be another way, you know, where the parties are controlling every aspect of the election systems in every state in Commonwealth.

Denver Riggleman:

So that's where I'm at.

Colonel Mo Davis:

Well, it's certainly the same here in North Carolina.

Colonel Mo Davis:

It's really hard, you know, to be an independent.

Colonel Mo Davis:

They make it difficult to get on the ballot.

Colonel Mo Davis:

You know, as I mentioned, the biggest voting block in North Carolina is unaffiliated.

Colonel Mo Davis:

But to serve on a state or county board of elections, you've got to be a member of one of the two parties.

Colonel Mo Davis:

So, you know, institutionally, I know the Democrats and Republicans hate each other, but they, they know the game and they're happy, you know, fighting against each other and not having another avenue to compete with.

Denver Riggleman:

Somebody's got to drop a turd in their punch bowl.

Denver Riggleman:

You know, that's really what it comes down to.

Denver Riggleman:

There needs to be a disrupt and you know, it was like, well, what if you lose?

Denver Riggleman:

What if I get 20% of the vote?

Denver Riggleman:

That is going to put pucker factor all over the two party system in Virginia.

David Wheeler:

Right?

Denver Riggleman:

Mo So I need to scare people.

Denver Riggleman:

I need to get the horror fight and I need to call out both sides, even if it's Abby David.

Denver Riggleman:

Right?

Denver Riggleman:

Like if they're saying stupid stuff or they're going right down the line of special interest.

Denver Riggleman:

What if somebody actually said, I love you, you're a great person, but you're.

Denver Riggleman:

Well.

Denver Riggleman:

And oh, you know, and, and not to attack as just to attack, right?

Denver Riggleman:

Not to make up stuff like, like her opponents did against Abby or make up stuff against Winsome.

Denver Riggleman:

And listen, I'm no, no fan of the far right.

Denver Riggleman:

You guys know where I stand, right?

Denver Riggleman:

But wouldn't it be interesting to have somebody who's just like, hey, I'm neither, Like, literally neither.

Denver Riggleman:

I'm just an American guy or a gal, whoever wants to run that way and say, I'm just here to fricking break things, right?

Denver Riggleman:

In a good way.

Denver Riggleman:

Because this two party system controls everything.

Denver Riggleman:

It's time to have somebody outside of that two party system that has power.

Denver Riggleman:

And I think that's, I think, where people are like, is this really a thing?

David Wheeler:

I think, I think you're onto something there.

David Wheeler:

Denver, I think.

David Wheeler:

I think there's a lot of similarities between North Carolina and Virginia.

Denver Riggleman:

Huge.

Denver Riggleman:

Huge.

Denver Riggleman:

And George Washington hated political parties.

Denver Riggleman:

Right, guys?

Denver Riggleman:

And he was also a distiller.

Denver Riggleman:

So I'm the next George.

Colonel Mo Davis:

There's your bumper sticker right there.

Denver Riggleman:

Such a joke, Shelby.

Denver Riggleman:

George Washington don't for exotic answer.

Denver Riggleman:

Stiller and unaffiliated.

Denver Riggleman:

So there you go.

David Wheeler:

Well, listen, my friend, my vote counts for nothing.

David Wheeler:

And sometimes I, I think I probably, probably take votes away from people if I endorse them.

David Wheeler:

But, man, I am 100 behind you on this.

David Wheeler:

I think you're the right guy to do it because you, you're moderate in your thinking, you're moderate in your politics, you're moderate in the way you live your life.

David Wheeler:

And, and you're, you're likable.

David Wheeler:

You're a likable person.

David Wheeler:

And I don't say that to puff you up, but, you know, that matters.

David Wheeler:

I mean, the moment you and I connected about six months ago, I felt like, you know, we went to high school together and, and I think that matters.

David Wheeler:

Let's move on to our final topic here and then let you get back to AI world.

David Wheeler:

J6 so obviously, God bless you for everything you did on that committee.

David Wheeler:

And I think that was a labor of love and probably pretty frustrating for you at the same time.

David Wheeler:

But tell us a little bit about how that came about and give us at least one story that maybe isn't in the book that we haven't heard before.

Denver Riggleman:

Oh, my God, David.

Denver Riggleman:

What a dare.

Denver Riggleman:

So J6 committee came along.

Denver Riggleman:

Just people knew my background when I was on the Financial Services Committee.

Denver Riggleman:

I was on the.

Denver Riggleman:

I was actually as a freshman, the vice chair of the subcommittee for National Security Financial Services has a huge overview like ofac, Department of Treasury intelligence, and any of my background in China and Russia threat systems.

Denver Riggleman:

So I was really fortunate that even in Congress, people recognize my background in technology and foreign policy, but also in really defense, as in total, not only the dod, but the intelligence.

Denver Riggleman:

So that's why I thought I'd be in for a while.

Denver Riggleman:

But again, talent and intelligence is not a.

Denver Riggleman:

Is actually sometimes mutually exclusive for money and election.

Denver Riggleman:

January 6th happens.

Denver Riggleman:

I get a call from Liz Cheney the night of January 6th, and she calls me and she says, denver, help us with the second impeachment.

Denver Riggleman:

And I did.

Denver Riggleman:

I actually.

Denver Riggleman:

We found seven white nationalist groups with our data guys that I knew that were involved in that report was in Louis Cheney sand by January 8th.

Denver Riggleman:

Pretty crazy.

Denver Riggleman:

And she remembered that and she Remembered what I can do in my Congress for this kind of stuff.

Denver Riggleman:

And she called me to be on the January 6th committee once.

Denver Riggleman:

You know, it was that HR 503, I think I will tell you, I am waking up every morning, David, hoping that the January 6th committee wasn't just a big fart.

Denver Riggleman:

Malin right now.

Denver Riggleman:

What's that?

Denver Riggleman:

I also know that when you talk about what happened on the January 6th committee, we definitely couldn't follow all the threads because of resourcing, which was really Congress's fault.

Denver Riggleman:

But the thing that I need people to know is Congress is not situated to investigate massive data based crimes in any way.

Denver Riggleman:

And that's something that we found out pretty quickly.

Denver Riggleman:

And then things drop through the cracks.

Denver Riggleman:

Like there should have been much more on Roger Stone, on the phone records, on the telephone call that went to Rider, to a writer from the White House switchboard, which was underreported and stopped at by so many reporters because they didn't understand metadata.

Denver Riggleman:

And how awful it was that the White House had so much contact with rally goers, with Oath Keepers.

Denver Riggleman:

You know, the Oath Keeper, Kelly Sorrell was texting Andrew Giuliani before January 6 that he worked for Trump directly.

Denver Riggleman:

So now we have Oath Keepers with direct line to White House staff.

Denver Riggleman:

This is so big, it's so overwhelmingly awful and bizarre.

Denver Riggleman:

Just shows the lack of judgment and the unethical, immoral and possibly illegal activity.

Denver Riggleman:

The Trump administration or January 6th.

Denver Riggleman:

And yet the press wants to concentrate on, say, Cassidy Hutchinson and Trump's state of mind, which is maybe one of the most unimportant things in retrospect.

Denver Riggleman:

You know, it got a lot of coverage and thank God she was so brave.

Denver Riggleman:

But that should have led into, well, Trump was.

Denver Riggleman:

Had this glib attitude and wanted it to happen.

Denver Riggleman:

Who are the people executing it?

Denver Riggleman:

Where are the Roger Stones, Mike Flynn, the Alex Joneses and the Patrick Burns and the Michael and Dells and the Sydney Powell.

David Wheeler:

Right.

Denver Riggleman:

And the Steve Bannons.

Denver Riggleman:

And I think we just lost so much in translation.

Denver Riggleman:

And especially, you know, the, the text messages for Meadows, which our team found, and the Jenny Thomas text messages.

Denver Riggleman:

And I think we lost an incredible opportunity to subpoena Jenny and Clarence.

Denver Riggleman:

You know, the, the interview she had at the end wasn't even under oath.

Denver Riggleman:

So I think there was a political fear to go all in at the congressional level.

Denver Riggleman:

And it's just some of the things with all the courage that the cast of Sarah's and the people that got up there and Ruby and I just, all the people that were so Brave.

Denver Riggleman:

I think it really didn't mean a hell of beans.

Denver Riggleman:

And actually maybe because we couldn't message it correctly and couldn't identify all those in the time that we had, all the people responsible, I think we're in a really bad spot right now and to where nobody's going to trust what a committee or commission says at the congressional level.

Denver Riggleman:

And plus with the massive data issues we have and the disinformation, I just don't know right.

Denver Riggleman:

If Congress is suited to do that.

Denver Riggleman:

And I think that's, that's really, my, my really, my soapbox is that Congress is doing the right thing and did an incredible job with what they add.

Denver Riggleman:

But you need more actual counterterrorism analysts and data analysts that Congress were to hire if they're going to do this effectively.

Denver Riggleman:

I think that's the lesson learned.

Denver Riggleman:

Out of all the magic and goodness and heroism on the January 6th committee.

Denver Riggleman:

I think we missed the vote of the command and control architecture and maybe the people that were really behind it.

David Wheeler:

You look at Trump and everybody poo poos and says he's an idiot.

David Wheeler:

But if he's an idiot, how did he pull off this cover up?

David Wheeler:

I mean, it's, he's not an idiot.

David Wheeler:

He's not, he's not.

David Wheeler:

He has figured out how to get people to do the dirty work for him in a way that is diabolical.

David Wheeler:

But at the same time, he won again.

David Wheeler:

Congresswoman Lauren Boebert, you know, everybody thinks she's a dingbat.

David Wheeler:

You know, she is in some ways, but she's also extremely effective at getting her message out and winning.

Denver Riggleman:

Listen, Mo said something earlier about suggesting this voter your stupid list.

Denver Riggleman:

I think with Lauren Boebert, Marjorie Taylor Greene, although I think they actually are literally morons, I think, but I think they've learned how to weaponize stupidity in a way because they have no moral compass.

Denver Riggleman:

There's, they're almost sociopathic morons where they know that it's stupid selves.

Denver Riggleman:

And I think that's where we're at right now is that, listen, if Trump is ordained by God, it means that everything he says actually means what he means.

Denver Riggleman:

And that's why you have so many individuals, I think, who are following him.

Denver Riggleman:

I don't think they're just voting for him.

Denver Riggleman:

I think they're following him.

Denver Riggleman:

I think they're worshiping him.

Denver Riggleman:

I think he has created this cult, like, you know, sort of thing around him.

Denver Riggleman:

I mean, he beat Kamala in the popular boat.

Denver Riggleman:

I mean, achieving it.

Denver Riggleman:

Chris.

David Wheeler:

What?

Denver Riggleman:

You know, it's it still is.

Denver Riggleman:

It's mind boggling to me.

Denver Riggleman:

And it just shows you that an adjudicated sexual abuser is more trusted than the Democratic Party.

Denver Riggleman:

Or do we have people who don't even believe what rationality is anymore or is a little bit of both?

Denver Riggleman:

And I think that's the reason I'm running is what, what is it I want, right?

Denver Riggleman:

I think I do.

Denver Riggleman:

But my God, I want to stand in front of somebody.

Denver Riggleman:

If they asked me, if aliens asked me to run, then I know that we're screwed.

Colonel Mo Davis:

I think the thing that really disappoints me more than, you know, the Marjorie Taylor Greens and Lauren Bogart.

Colonel Mo Davis:

my first trial I ever did, in:

Colonel Mo Davis:

And then when I was the staff judge advocate at Columbus Air Force Base in Mississippi, one of my reservists was Roger Wicker.

Colonel Mo Davis:

I know that Rose Graham and Roger Wicker know better.

Colonel Mo Davis:

I mean, they're not morons, they're not idiots, but they've made the calculation that it's in their interest to, you know, go along and get along rather than showing the moral courage you'd expect of, you know, folks like them.

Colonel Mo Davis:

And to me, that's just really disappointing.

Denver Riggleman:

Well, I guess winning is more important than America.

Colonel Mo Davis:

It seems to be.

Denver Riggleman:

To them, that's just a morality issue.

Denver Riggleman:

You know, Go ahead, Dave.

David Wheeler:

Yeah, no, I was just going to say.

David Wheeler:

And that's the difference between Democrats and Republicans right now.

David Wheeler:

The Republicans want to win.

David Wheeler:

Democrats just want to be right.

David Wheeler:

It is.

Denver Riggleman:

I've been behind the door, David, with Republicans and Democrats.

Denver Riggleman:

I'm going to tell you unequivocally, Republicans are so much tougher and don't care how they win.

Denver Riggleman:

They're going to win.

Denver Riggleman:

Democrats, I've never seen more backbiting, bickering, philosophical, freaking whining.

David Wheeler:

Yeah, well, look at, look at J6man.

David Wheeler:

Again, an opportunity to point out all of the inequities in this country, the scum that perpetrated this fraud on America and invaded the Capitol and the Democrats were in charge of messaging this.

David Wheeler:

And look where it ended up.

David Wheeler:

Vis V, which you've said earlier in this conversation.

David Wheeler:

It went nowhere.

David Wheeler:

It was the turd in the punch bowl that you were talking about.

David Wheeler:

Yeah.

Denver Riggleman:

And listen, there's just a lack of toughness and there's a lack of I get a call Denver, would you accept a conditional partner?

Denver Riggleman:

Partner from Joe Biden?

Denver Riggleman:

And we could do another podcast on this, David, A movie.

Denver Riggleman:

You know, I did the forensics on honor Biden's left and also his phones.

Denver Riggleman:

So you know, they said, denver, would you take a conditional pardon?

Denver Riggleman:

I said, no, I want a bar fight.

Denver Riggleman:

There's no way I would accept a pardon.

Denver Riggleman:

I don't know if I can turn one down, but I want a bar fight.

Denver Riggleman:

Subpoena me frickin bring it.

Denver Riggleman:

And I think that's what the Democrats absolutely lack.

Denver Riggleman:

There's not a Democrat who said that.

Denver Riggleman:

You know, we have the lawyers out there who try to, you know, self gratify, right, by saying I'm a hero on social media, send money to me and I'll fight these Republicans, you know.

Denver Riggleman:

Yeah, okay, you're an attorney, that's great.

Denver Riggleman:

I what we need, we need people to run.

Denver Riggleman:

We need people who want to fight in a public square and go for votes that way.

Denver Riggleman:

That's the fight.

Denver Riggleman:

And to be on a debate stage, look at somebody said, listen, you literally do have brain matter leaking out of your ear.

Denver Riggleman:

That's how stupid you are.

Denver Riggleman:

I just.

Denver Riggleman:

Because they're going to, they do that to the Democrats.

Denver Riggleman:

Trump just tells them exactly that they're pieces of crap.

Denver Riggleman:

Or on the Joe Biden thing, I don't think you know what you're talking about and I certainly don't write something like that, you know, because he was talking gibberish and he just pointed it out, you're an idiot.

Denver Riggleman:

And oh my God, you know, so they're willing to do that.

Denver Riggleman:

Why in the hell aren't the Dems.

Denver Riggleman:

And it's because they.

Denver Riggleman:

I just don't know if they have that ability to be that angry.

Denver Riggleman:

I don't know well enough.

David Wheeler:

Mo and I tried to run campaigns like that and were rejected.

David Wheeler:

I mean we would.

David Wheeler:

And an area that has Buncombe county which is, you know, very liberal and we got both got chastised by the chair there for the way running our campaigns.

Colonel Mo Davis:

We were building a mice.

Denver Riggleman:

Yeah, well, I tell you, you need to drag an ax to the Tea Party, right?

Colonel Mo Davis:

No, we'll bring a quinoa salad to the fight.

Denver Riggleman:

That's right, that's right, that's right.

Denver Riggleman:

You're bringing what they said, an old noodle to a gunfight.

Denver Riggleman:

You know, so that's where I'm at.

Denver Riggleman:

Sorry.

Denver Riggleman:

I'm pretty specific about that.

Denver Riggleman:

The thing is there's really good people in the Democratic Party who want to defend Democratic institutions, but man, they're scared to death to really bang that drum and to go after people.

Denver Riggleman:

And I think that's what needs to change on the Democratic side, the Republican side, they know how to win.

Denver Riggleman:

They know how to mobilize.

Denver Riggleman:

They know how to distract.

Denver Riggleman:

They know how to utilize their social media system better than the Democrats can even imagine.

Denver Riggleman:

Their media ecosystem is huge.

Denver Riggleman:

It's a freaking sledgehammer.

Denver Riggleman:

And the Dems don't even know what's going on behind their back.

Denver Riggleman:

They don't even know the disinformation, the conspiracy theories that are undermining their votes.

Denver Riggleman:

Right.

Denver Riggleman:

And that they're, they're the tools of the Antichrist.

Denver Riggleman:

So they're the ones that are deep state and globalists and they're actually, you know, harvesting adrenochrome from children in basements and that bullshit.

Denver Riggleman:

So that's the stuff that I just don't think the Democrats understand is how willing, how specific the mission is for Republicans to win these races.

Denver Riggleman:

And they're just tougher.

David Wheeler:

Denver, thank you so much for coming on the show with Mo and myself.

David Wheeler:

You are a hero.

David Wheeler:

I said this to you the first or second time we had a conversation.

David Wheeler:

You're my kind of guy.

David Wheeler:

Give them hell.

David Wheeler:

Don't take shit from anybody.

David Wheeler:

I am 100% in for Riggleman for lieutenant governor of Virginia.

David Wheeler:

I'm going to help.

David Wheeler:

If you decide to also want to plug your book one more time, the Breach, which is available Amazon.com as well as on Audible, I highly recommend that book the Breach.

David Wheeler:

It's an inside story of the J6 committee data and information behind that.

David Wheeler:

Mo, why don't you give Denver our final question and then we'll say goodbye.

Colonel Mo Davis:

Well, listen, I think you had me a bourbon.

Colonel Mo Davis:

This is totally unrelated to politics, but aside from your own bourbon, what's your pick?

Denver Riggleman:

Oh my gosh.

Denver Riggleman:

If it's a table bourbon and you said, you know, always makers at the beginning, but now it's a four rows of small batch with one big rock.

Denver Riggleman:

If you're talking about a really good bourbon, if I'm going to go Cast Strength, I'm going to go Booker's show.

Denver Riggleman:

But there's some other great stuff like Calumet that a lot of people haven't heard of, that's really good bourbon.

Denver Riggleman:

Can you get the little sign bourbons like Johnny Drum and things like that, But I got to tell you, you know, when it comes to like something where I'm just going to sit down and really have a nice relaxed drink, it's going to be single barrel Wellers.

Denver Riggleman:

So there you go, Mo.

Colonel Mo Davis:

All right.

Colonel Mo Davis:

Give recommendation.

David Wheeler:

Denver, do me a favor and give US websites.

Denver Riggleman:

So www.sbdistillery.com denver4va on X denver the number 4 and then VA and on Blue sky you can find me at Denver Riggle.

David Wheeler:

Awesome Denver.

David Wheeler:

Well, good luck in Virginia.

Denver Riggleman:

Thank you David.

Denver Riggleman:

Thank you.

Denver Riggleman:

Moving this has been Muck you, hosted by Colonel Mo Davis and David Wheeler.

Denver Riggleman:

ican muckrakers and copyright:

Denver Riggleman:

More information on American muckrakers is@americanmokbreakers.com.

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MUCK YOU!
Produced by American Muckrakers
MUCK YOU! is hosted by Col. Moe Davis and David B. Wheeler, the Co-Founders of American Muckrakers.
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