From Finland with Fire: Joni Takes on Musk's Disinformation
This podcast episode features an engaging discussion on the alarming rise of disinformation, particularly in the context of Donald Trump's potential return to power and his controversial nominees like Tulsi Gabbard and Pete Hegseth. Hosts Colonel Mo Davis and David Wheeler explore the implications of these developments, emphasizing the need for accountability and integrity in leadership roles. The conversation extends to the geopolitical landscape, highlighting the perspectives of Yoni, a guest from Finland, who shares insights on Russia's actions and the importance of supporting Ukraine. As they navigate the complexities of current political dynamics, the hosts also address the challenges of combating disinformation in an era where social media plays a crucial role. This episode serves as a call to action for listeners to remain vigilant and informed in the face of ongoing political and social upheaval.
Episode 1:
Hosts: Col. Moe Davis & David B. Wheeler, Co-Founders, American Muckrakers
Guest: Joni Askola, Finland
- Trump and Greenland, Panama Canal, Canada and Gulf of America
- GOP trying to steal a NC Supreme Court election
- NC Dem party is dead
- Joni Askola versus Elon Musk
- Joni's work for Ukraine
- Finland vs. Russia
In the debut episode of Muck You, Colonel Mo Davis and David Wheeler navigate the turbulent waters of contemporary American politics, offering a platform for critical discourse in a time of rising disinformation and political turmoil. The hosts reflect on their experience with American Muckrakers, where they targeted figures like Madison Cawthorn and Donald Trump, and they express a shared commitment to shedding light on the truth. As they unpack the current political landscape, Mo and David discuss the overwhelming control of the far right, the frustration felt by everyday citizens, and the urgent need for truthful information to counteract the pervasive misinformation that dominates public debate.
The conversation takes a critical turn as the hosts delve into Trump's erratic behavior and his proposals that threaten established international norms. Mo articulates his concerns regarding Trump's remarks about NATO allies and the implications for global security. They explore the potential appointments of individuals like Tulsi Gabbard and Pete Hegseth to key positions in the government, questioning their qualifications and the broader impact these choices could have on national security. The hosts draw on their military backgrounds to emphasize the importance of competent leadership in the armed forces, making a compelling case for the need to prioritize integrity and qualifications over loyalty to Trump.
The episode also features an engaging discussion with Joni, a Finnish activist who recently found himself at the center of a controversy involving Elon Musk. Joni shares his experiences of backlash and online harassment following his criticism of Musk's comments about immigrants, highlighting the real-world consequences of standing up against powerful figures in the age of social media. As he discusses his activism in support of Ukraine, Joni emphasizes the moral imperative to defend democracy and sovereignty against authoritarianism. This episode of Muck You serves as both a critical analysis of the current political climate and a call to action for listeners to engage with the truth and participate actively in the democratic process.
Takeaways:
- The podcast introduces the new venture of Muck You, which aims to discuss current political issues and provide insights on the actions of notable figures like Trump and Musk.
- Mo Davis and David B. Wheeler reflect on the frustrations felt by citizens under the current political climate, highlighting the need for truthful information.
- The hosts express concern over Trump's potential military threats against NATO allies, particularly Denmark, and the implications for international relations.
- Discussion includes the perception of Trump's nominees for key positions, with skepticism about their qualifications and the potential impact on national security.
- Joni from Finland shares his experiences confronting disinformation online, particularly in relation to Elon Musk's comments on Ukraine and immigration.
- The podcast emphasizes the importance of supporting Ukraine and the role of grassroots efforts in providing aid and fundraising for the war effort.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- American Muckrakers
- NATO
- Pipedrive
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Transcript
Foreign.
Speaker B:Welcome to the first episode of Muck you, hosted by Colonel Mo Davis and myself, David B.
Speaker B:Wheeler.
Speaker B:Thanks for agreeing to be part of this crazy thing, Mo.
Speaker A:I'm happy to do it.
Speaker B: American muckrakers spring of: Speaker B:And we thought it was time to jump on board with a podcast so we can annoy everybody with our opinions.
Speaker B:We bring a little new information to light similar to what we've done with American Muckrakers.
Speaker B:Obviously a dearth of podcasts out there, but we're hoping that we can build an audience interested in some of the more leading edge, cutting edge things that we've done with Muckrakers.
Speaker B:So we have started this podcast and we will have various guests on.
Speaker B:Our guest today, a gentleman from Finland who had the temerity to take on Elon Musk.
Speaker B:Again, I want to welcome my co host, Mo Davis.
Speaker A:Just happy to be here.
Speaker A:And now I've had a lot of folks, the far right's taken over, you know, control of the White House, the Senate, the House, the Supreme Court and the media.
Speaker A:And folks are just frustrated and feeling powerless.
Speaker A:There's nothing that, you know, they can do to push back.
Speaker A:So I think this is one way we can do that.
Speaker A:You know, we can put some information out there that's truthful, kind of like leading a horse to water, you can't make it drink.
Speaker A:You know, all we can do is try to get the information out there in a truthful way and hopefully it'll sink in with some that, you know, they've been fed a steady stream of lies for too long and it's got us to where we are today.
Speaker A:And I know we can, we can do a lot better than where we are.
Speaker B:So what are your thoughts on all this bullshit that Trump's trying to pull?
Speaker A:I got a range of feelings about it.
Speaker A:One is it's, who would have thought that America would be in the place that it is today where, you know, we were the leaders and after World War II and forming NATO, a mutual pact of self defense that, you know, binds all the signatories to come to the aid of others if they're attacked.
Speaker A:And here we are threatening military action against one of our NATO partners, Denmark, who owns Greenland and the Panama Canal.
Speaker A:I mean, we entered into a treaty decades ago and now again, Trump has said, you know, he wants to take it back.
Speaker A:And, you know, who knows the rationale?
Speaker A:I mean, I certainly have no insight into how Donald Trump thinks or even if he does think.
Speaker A:But it would appear to me that part of this, part of this strategy may be to.
Speaker A:I mean, this is what people are talking about right now, rather than talking about what deplorable nominees he's put forward to fill the highest offices in the country.
Speaker A:You know, people like Pete Hedge, Seth, to be the Secretary of Defense, who's just, number one, totally unqualified and number two, lacks the integrity for the job.
Speaker A:Or Tulsi Gabbard, who might as well be on Putin's payroll to serve as national security advice.
Speaker A:Again, you know, people aren't talking about those nominations and their confirmation hearings are coming up next week.
Speaker A:You know, out of the blue, Trump throws out this nonsense about taking Greenland and renaming the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America.
Speaker A:And if you recall, the big issue in the election was the price of eggs.
Speaker A:So I don't see where any of this crap does a damn thing about egg prices.
Speaker B:You think he's serious about any of this at all?
Speaker A:I think he would.
Speaker A:I think, again, he's taking a page out of.
Speaker A:I mean, look at what China and Russia are doing.
Speaker A:You know, China, you know, for years now has been a threat, you know, to their neighbors seeking more territory.
Speaker A:And, you know, Russia going into Ukraine, which, you know, if they get away with it there.
Speaker A:I think it's just the first step in a broader plan.
Speaker A:And I think Trump wants to follow his.
Speaker A:You know, he idolizes dictator like, you know, like Putin.
Speaker A:And, you know, perhaps that's what he's trying to imitate them.
Speaker A:You know, they're on the land grab, so maybe, you know, he should be, too.
Speaker A:But again, I think part of it is that disinformation campaign to take attention away from other important issues by throwing out and just slinging crap like he does to distract the media and the public.
Speaker B:You with the military background as well, I don't think he has any clue what it would take to invade.
Speaker B:To invade Greenland.
Speaker A:I mean, I served in the military for 25 years.
Speaker A:And afterwards, I mean, particularly when I was on the faculty at the law school at Howard, you know, I encouraged young people consider a military career that I found it to be a really good fit for me.
Speaker A:Felt like, you know, I got up every morning and I was doing something that mattered.
Speaker A:I wouldn't recommend that now because, you know, who the hell knows what Trump is going to do with the military and he's talked about using it to, you know, round up people here in the US which should be a violation of the Posse Comitatus act.
Speaker A:But, you know, since MAGA controls the Supreme Court, who knows what they would say about that.
Speaker A:Again, threatening our NATO partners, you know, with military action.
Speaker A:So at least for the next four years, I wouldn't encourage anyone to consider a career in the military until we have a commander in chief who's competent.
Speaker A:You know, I've said this a number of times before.
Speaker A:It's ridiculous that we have a commander in chief who can't meet the minimum standards that we demand of 18 year olds that are walking into recruiting stations today.
Speaker A:You know, you can't be an E1, but you can be the commander in chief and have the nuclear codes and it's just.
Speaker A:Do you go back a few years?
Speaker A:Would be hard to fathom America being in the place that it's in today with someone as morally reprehensible and incompetent and corrupt.
Speaker A:Is Donald Trump about to step back into the White House and resume the role of Commander in chief of the Armed force?
Speaker B:It's really a sad state affairs and don't want to belabor the negative too much, but how the fuck did we get here?
Speaker B:I mean, if you think about it, you know, this country has had a long history of, you know, leadership in the White House.
Speaker B:And then Trump, you know, was a bump in the road, we all thought, but here we are again back on that road.
Speaker B:How and the did we get here?
Speaker A:Yeah, it's, it's bizarre.
Speaker A:I, you know, in my 25 years in the military, we had Democrats in the White House, we had Republicans in the White House.
Speaker A:And you know, never in my entire career did I ever, I mean, there were, I had policy disagreements with, you know, everybody that ever served as commander in chief.
Speaker A:There are things that I would have done differently, but I never once questioned whether they had my back.
Speaker A:I certainly question that with Donald Trump, you know, who only seems interested in one person and that's himself and could care less about anyone else.
Speaker A:So you're right.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:You would have thought last time around was a warning.
Speaker A:It's like somebody had said, no, you know, if the first movie sucks, usually the sequel doesn't get better.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A: end, I'll admit, you know, in: Speaker A:I guess it was Reagan.
Speaker A:That new day in America.
Speaker A:And I thought it was a new day in America and a better day, and to go from that to.
Speaker A:To where we are now, it's just unimaginable.
Speaker A: ssly misread what happened in: Speaker A: And then in: Speaker A:But then for 77 million Americans to say, hey, I want the, you know, the sexual predator, predator, habitual, lying felon to lead the country.
Speaker A:I don't know if you remember, like, you know, when you and I were growing up, if somebody told your parents, said, boy, you know, David and Mo, they act presidential, that was a compliment.
Speaker A:You know, it was a, you know, a high standard where now, you know, you got to wonder whether to let your kids listen when President Elect Trump talks.
Speaker A:Because, you know, the.
Speaker A:The vulgarity, the profanity, the cruelty, they're just things.
Speaker B:The idiocy.
Speaker A:Yeah, it is.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, It's.
Speaker A:If somebody's been in a coma for the last dozen years and they wake up today, they'll probably wish they're back in the coma.
Speaker B:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:And, you know, I try and follow it, and I've got three kids, so, you know, thinking about the future for them, and I'm just at a point now where it's, let's survive for the next four years, get through this nonsense.
Speaker B:You know what?
Speaker B:Frankly, give him whatever the fuck he wants, because he's going to mess it up.
Speaker B:They're going to be mired in chaos, and why resist?
Speaker B:Why spend any energy?
Speaker B:Because they're going to get it anyway.
Speaker B:They're going to get what they want with this legislature or with this Congress and with this Supreme Court.
Speaker B:So, you know, if he wants to invade Greenland, I guess go for it, man.
Speaker B:I'm not advocating we do that, but if he thinks he can do that and make it happen, God bless you, Go for it, man, because he'll end up in a tribunal somewhere and.
Speaker B:And screw it up.
Speaker B:And I'm not suggesting that, you know, we just all give up and give in, but there are some things that I wish he would try because he's going to get his ass handed to him.
Speaker A:Millions of Americans that wanted it bad, and that's exactly how they're going to get it.
Speaker A:They remind me of a dog chasing a car.
Speaker A:The dog has now caught the car.
Speaker A:And what's he going to do with it?
Speaker A:Because I don't think they have a damn clue.
Speaker A:That's like health Care, you know, they've been wanting to get rid of Obamacare since before it was ever enacted.
Speaker A:And as you heard Trump say during the debates, he still, he has what a concept of a plan, grand ambitions, how they're going to, you know, reshape the country.
Speaker A:Hey, you've caught the car.
Speaker A:Let's, let's see what you're going to do with it.
Speaker B:You know, I also feel the same way about, you know, some of these Covid deniers in the past.
Speaker B:If they want to die, I guess die crazy that we've gotten to this point.
Speaker B:So, you know, another interesting piece of news which I think is close to our hearts is this North Carolina Supreme Court race that is in the news.
Speaker A:Yes, the, I guess as of now, there's only one race in the state that has not been certified by the state board of Elections and that's for the seat on the Supreme Court.
Speaker A:It was, you know, Democrat Justice Riggs running to retain her seat for challenger was Griffith, the Republican.
Speaker A:And in the end, Justice Riggs was reelected.
Speaker A:I think it was 734 votes was the margin out of the, you know, 5 plus million votes that were cast.
Speaker A:So I mean, it was a, you know, a very thin margin.
Speaker A:And justice or Mr.
Speaker A:Griffith was entitled to a recount and he's had two and both have confirmed the original result.
Speaker A:But instead what they've done is there's a, you know, folks want more information.
Speaker A:There's a good article in ProPublica that kind of outlined it in fairly short form.
Speaker A: to try to do what they did in: Speaker A:And so this theory, I believe there's roughly 60,000 votes that Griffith is trying to get tossed out.
Speaker A:60,000 North Carolinians that showed up and voted trying to have their votes nullified.
Speaker A:His argument is there is a requirement added a few years back when you register, you have to include either your driver's license number, the last four digits are your Social Security number.
Speaker A:Voters that he's going after are people that that information is not on their form, as many of them have said, you know, they provided, you know, to the election workers, they provided the information that was requested.
Speaker A:They showed ID when they voted in November.
Speaker A:There there's not a single, not One of those 60,000 ballots has Griffith, Griffith or the Republicans shown was a fraudulent vote.
Speaker A:But it's this trying to sow doubt about the integrity of the election.
Speaker A:So anyway, the Republicans, after being dissatisfied with the outcome of the two recounts, challenged it.
Speaker A:One of the state Supreme Court, you know, which is, as you noted, is currently a 5, 2 Republican majority.
Speaker A:And again, I don't know that there's anything that the Republicans could do with a 6:1 majority.
Speaker A:They can't do with a 5:2 majority, but they'll fight tooth and nail for that little ounce of extra power, you know, with the Democrats for too long.
Speaker A:You know, you can look back in prior elections, we just roll over.
Speaker A:You know, when it's over, we say, hey, you know, we tried, we did our best.
Speaker A:We can go get a cup of chamomile tea and, you know, move on.
Speaker A:But for them, they'll fight tooth and nail for this little bit of extra they think they'll get by having six seats instead of five.
Speaker A:On the Supreme Court.
Speaker A:The Democrats, Justice Riggs and her supporters tried to get the case heard in federal court.
Speaker A:The judge there remanded it back to the state court, Supreme Court and the court this week, in a 4 to 2 ruling, Justice Riggs disqualified herself since the case involves her, which.
Speaker B:And that's the right thing to do with that.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker A:I'm not sure if the Republicans would, I mean, if, you know, recently when, you know, when, when one of the justices, his father was the author of some of the legislation that was under review and he said, oh, that, you know, just because it's my dad, it doesn't disqualify me.
Speaker A:But again, it was the right thing to do.
Speaker A:But there were two dissenting opinions, one by Anita Earls, who's the other Democrat on the court, and the other was by a Republican justice on the court who said that this undermines confidence in the electoral process and it disenfranchises potentially up to 60,000 North Carolinians who did exactly what they were told to do to cast a vote.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And doesn't it, doesn't it beg the question what, you know, well, what about the rest of the election?
Speaker A:If those, Yeah, I agree.
Speaker B:If a thousand people were illegitimate votes.
Speaker B:Well, what about the governor's race, which wasn't close, but there were several other races that were very close.
Speaker A:And again, this theory has been litigated before and has never gone anywhere but with our, you know, Republican dominated court.
Speaker A:You're exactly right that if these votes don't count in the Supreme Court race and they shouldn't count in any other.
Speaker B:Race, so they could potentially be reversing for Attorney General and the race for lieutenant governor.
Speaker A:Well, who knows?
Speaker B:I mean, I think petition for that Right.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I think the argument would be that, you know, those races weren't challenged timely manner and they've been certified so that the, you know, the losers, you know, have waived their opportunity to contest it.
Speaker A:But it certainly begs the question that, well, if these votes are invalid in this race, then how do they count as valid votes in other races?
Speaker B:Essentially this Republican led Supreme Court is trying to overturn the will of the voters of North Carolina.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Well, that certainly they haven't done that yet.
Speaker A:But by enjoining the state Board of Elections from certifying the outcome, they scheduled oral argument in the case for later this month.
Speaker A:Soon thereafter, they'll toss this out and it'll be over and done.
Speaker A:Hopefully.
Speaker A:North Carolinians remember next time around that, you know, elections have consequences.
Speaker A:And one of the consequences was, you know, our court got stacked with the Republican justices who you're supposed to follow the rule of law, not, you know, lick your finger and stick it in the wind and see which way blows best for your party.
Speaker B:And again, you know, how did we get here, folks?
Speaker B:You know, it's just crazy that this is even a topic of discussion.
Speaker B:And frankly, I believe the Supreme Court here is going to do it.
Speaker B:There's nothing to stop them.
Speaker B:They have shown they're willing to push norms.
Speaker B:It's amazing that we're at this place.
Speaker B:And frankly, why doesn't the Board of Elections, which is controlled by the Democrats still, why don't they just certify a winner, do what the Republicans would do?
Speaker B:They would, they would find some sort of legal angle, whether it was constitutional or not.
Speaker B:They don't care.
Speaker B:But why is it we can't play that game too?
Speaker A:I think it's because we, we choose not to.
Speaker A:Not too long ago, I had chairwoman of the Buncombe County Democratic Party got angry with me and said I was behaving like a Republican.
Speaker A:And I thought to myself, well, you know, perhaps the Democratic Party should be behaving more like Republicans.
Speaker A:So they fight tooth and nail where we roll over and, and play dead.
Speaker A:You know, they go to the mat and you know, I'm certainly an advocate to break the law, but, you know.
Speaker B:You could help make the law in court.
Speaker A: u know, you and I back in, in: Speaker A:We encourage voters here in western North Carolina to register as unaffiliated and then to vote in the Republican primary because it's small numbers and you know, if you get enough people, you can, you Know, you can pick the winner and in a district where the number, you know, mathematically it's virtually impossible to win, rather than getting a horrible outcome, why not get the least worst outcome you can achieve?
Speaker A:Not by breaking any rules.
Speaker A:By using the rules.
Speaker B:Right, exactly.
Speaker B:And you remember all the.
Speaker B:We got.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:From the existing chair, you know, the chair at the time of the Buncombe County Dems who have, I think is pissed off to New York City since then.
Speaker B:I remember the resistance and, and I remember pundits saying it won't work because folks had tried it in Ohio at the behest of Rush Limbaugh to get rid of Clinton that way and in a primary there.
Speaker B:And they said it wouldn't work.
Speaker B: rgin of loss for Cawthorn was: Speaker B:1200 votes.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:So it did work.
Speaker A:And again, that's not breaking the law.
Speaker A:That's using the, using the rules to your advantage.
Speaker A:And again you and I got, you know, beat about the head and shoulders by the Democrats for, you know, gaming the system.
Speaker A:So you know, the Republicans have shown they will break the law.
Speaker A:You know, they've done it before and it's a matter of record.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And then they use taxpayer money to defend themselves because they usually do it through official, official means.
Speaker B:Well, listen, I, I'm, you know, I ran for statewide for commissioner of insurance and I was tagged as a Trump, Trump acolyte, which is unbelievable.
Speaker B:And my Marine father, I guarantee you, rolled over in his grave when he heard that.
Speaker B:But you know, I just.
Speaker B:The Democratic Party in North Carolina is dead as far as I'm concerned.
Speaker B:I mean, they're not winning.
Speaker B:They've got a.
Speaker B:You know, I like Anderson Clayton a lot.
Speaker B:She's a firebrand.
Speaker B:She raised lots of money, she did lots of great things and I think maybe even helped Stein have a veto proof house.
Speaker B:But beyond that, you know, where's the success?
Speaker B:You know, Stein ran a great campaign.
Speaker B:He's a good guy.
Speaker B:He raised a lot.
Speaker B:A shitload of money.
Speaker B:I can't stand his chief consultant, Morgan Jackson.
Speaker B:But you know, he had a flawed opponent.
Speaker B:Opponent.
Speaker B:If I think I could have even beat Robinson, the guy that made africanewds.com famous, you know, Rachel Hunt, great candidate.
Speaker B:I think she earned her way into that job.
Speaker B:I'm proud of, proud to know her.
Speaker B:And I think that was a win for the Democrats.
Speaker B:Jeff Jackson, again, a very flawed opponent, raised a crapload of money.
Speaker B:I think Jeff again earned that spot.
Speaker B:But beyond, and you know, beyond Mo.
Speaker A:Mo Green, you know, one Mo Mo.
Speaker B:Another good guy who I got to know when I was campaigning.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And a hugely, a hugely flawed opponent then.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:Again, that, that opponent, if you couldn't beat her, then Democrats ought to just close the doors.
Speaker B:But beyond that, where was the success?
Speaker B:Where was the win with all that money, all that hype.
Speaker A:No, I agree.
Speaker A:I, I read an op ed in the Asheville Citizen Times a couple weeks back and you know, I said that all the hand wringing that's going on yet looking forward, it's going to be a steeper climb because with the Republicans in control of all the levers of power, you know, we're going to have to find new and creative ways to kind of punch through that.
Speaker A:And I said, you know, a lot of folks around here are patting themselves on the back about, well, you know, yeah, Trump won, but we got, you know, Josh Stein and Rachel, you know, all those statewide victories.
Speaker A:And I said, you know, if anybody deserves a pat on the back for the Democratic wins and those, it's the Republicans for putting up such shitty candidates that people could say, well, I can tolerate Trump, but I can't tolerate Mark Robinson.
Speaker B:So had it been, had it been Dale Falwell or outgoing treasurer, Republican, I can't imagine Stein would have won.
Speaker A:Well, you know, I think there's a reason that the largest voting block affiliation in North Carolina is unaffiliated.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:You know, there are more.
Speaker B:And that's new.
Speaker B:That's new.
Speaker B:In the last year or so.
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean, in the past, the Democrats had a, an advantage, at least by, by registrations.
Speaker A:But, but unaffiliated is, you know, the number one designation that people choose over Republican or Democrat.
Speaker A:I mean, there's a reason people don't want to be affiliated with the Democratic Party or the Republican Party because they're tired of the, of the bullshit on both sides.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And, and I would contend that the Republicans or Democrats just lay down and let the Republicans run over them.
Speaker B:And the Republicans are like, oh, if you're just, if you're just going to lay there, yeah, I guess I will run over you.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, yeah, I've made that argument repeatedly that, you know, they come to a kn armed with an Uzi and we show up with a quinoa salad.
Speaker B:So, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And I met with the same Buncombe county chair woman when I was running for commissioner of insurance.
Speaker B:And she, her main concern for me was don't embarrass.
Speaker B:Don't embarrass you in what way?
Speaker B:By beating up my opponent.
Speaker B:And I subsequently, I did not do well in that primary for a lot of reasons.
Speaker B:And my opponent, Tasha Marcus, was the better candidate, to be honest with you.
Speaker B:That's why I lost.
Speaker B:Even during that campaign.
Speaker B:I was told over and over again, you can't point out the fact that she sat on a committee that had oversight in insurance but didn't introduce one bill the entire time she was on that committee.
Speaker B:And I got holy hell for it because I was trying to draw a distinction between our candidacies and, you know, the Democrat.
Speaker B:I'm just so sick of it, Mo.
Speaker B:I mean, they're just pussies.
Speaker B:I'm sorry.
Speaker B:They're just pussies about a lot of these issues.
Speaker B:And a lot of the ways of campaigning, they don't realize what the Republicans are doing.
Speaker B:They're just, they're manufacturing the truth in a way that puts Democrats on the defensive.
Speaker B:So it's, it's a double whammy.
Speaker B:Not only are they lying, but then the Democrats are on the defensive to defend a lie.
Speaker B:You know, Democratic Party's dead in, in North Carolina.
Speaker A:I think it's broader than just North Carolina.
Speaker A:I mean, if the Democratic Party can't defeat a candidate as flawed as Donald Trump, it's got problems.
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean, yeah, I think a normal.
Speaker A:Again, if there is such thing as a normal Republican anymore.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But I mean, I mean, here's a guy that, you know, polling was showing a majority of Americans, you know, thought he was unfit to anyone with any sense.
Speaker A:You know, it's patently obvious that he's, you know, habitual liar and corrupt, self serving and he won.
Speaker A:So if the Democrats can't beat someone.
Speaker B:Like Donald Trump with a billion and a half dollars too, by the way.
Speaker A:Yeah, there needs to be some real soul searching on the path forward or they're going to be, they're going to be wandering around in the desert for a long time.
Speaker A:Yeah, they get this figured out.
Speaker B:I hear you loud and clear.
Speaker B:And I think that's a good segue to what we hope to do with this podcast is to have these sorts of discussions where it's not all unicorns and, and strawberries, gang.
Speaker B:You know, something's got to change.
Speaker B:And listen, Mo and I don't have any delusions that we think we know everything, but you know, we have taken contrary views and the party has rejected them that hasn't stopped and stopped us.
Speaker B:And we've taken a harder approach to both of our campaigns.
Speaker B:And I think during the course of this podcast, subsequent ones, you know, we'll have guests on that can maybe share some new ideas about how to counter some of this, whether it's Trump, whether it's Musk, whether it's Republicans or, or others in the United States and abroad that we can bring some new ideas to the table and, and maybe the Democrats can adopt some of it and, and start winning.
Speaker B:So that's what we hope to do with this podcast.
Speaker B:And, and I would be remiss if I didn't give you a chance to plug your book.
Speaker B:You've got a terrific book out.
Speaker A:Yeah, thanks.
Speaker A:I have a book out called Sovereign Oak and it's available on Amazon.
Speaker A:When the hurricane hit, a lot of the book is historical fiction.
Speaker A:So there are three historical events that I use to set the groundwork for the last part, which is a fictional story.
Speaker A:But a lot of the book is based on the Cherokee belief in the interconnectedness of everything in nature.
Speaker A:And so a large part of the book focuses on nature and particularly trees and water.
Speaker A:And when Helene hit, those are the things that turned deadly and destructive.
Speaker A:And I made the commitment that for a year I would donate 100% of whatever I make off the book to organizations that are helping with Hurricane helene relief.
Speaker A:Again, 100% of the profits from the books will, will go to hurricane relief.
Speaker A:And again it's available, it's called Sovereign Oak and it's available on Amazon.com that's.
Speaker B:A terrific book from what I understand.
Speaker B:The author told me it was terrific and so I'm going to make sure I get a copy and read it and share it with my friends and family.
Speaker A:Let me know what you think.
Speaker B:We're gonna little break and Yanni from Finland's gonna join us here.
Speaker B:And on Muck you with Colonel Mo Davis and David Wheeler.
Speaker B:We'll be back shortly.
Speaker B:Welcome back to Muck you hosted by David Wheeler and my good friend Mo Davis.
Speaker B:We've got a guest with us today all the way from Finland.
Speaker B:His name is Yanni.
Speaker B:Yanni is a topic du jour in that our friend Elon Musk decided to send some, some nasty comments his way.
Speaker B:So Yanni, do us a favor and kind of outline what you said, what happened and if there's been any repercussions since then.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:So on I think it was on Sunday evening I'm here in Finland at my parents summer house and we've Spent Christmas together and they're still here.
Speaker C:My family lives in France and we're just spending a normal Sunday.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And I tweeted something about Elon Musk, which I do quite often.
Speaker C:It's something I do quite often because I tend to post some threads and tweets about things related to Ukraine.
Speaker C:I fundraise for Ukraine on X.
Speaker C:And I also tend to criticize, for example, Elon Musk for his stance on Ukraine.
Speaker C:So I just tweeted something about Elon Musk and said that he's basically turning into the biggest spreader of disinformation in the history of humanity and that the EU should do something about it because it's not good.
Speaker C:I just posted that the post itself didn't get much reach and I had some other posts that day as well.
Speaker C:And I went to sleep and then I woke up during the night because there was the U20 ice hockey world Championship and Finland was playing against the US in the final.
Speaker C:And I watched that and Finland lost in the.
Speaker C:In overtime.
Speaker C:And then I was sad.
Speaker C:I went to sleep again, and then I woke up a bit late in the morning.
Speaker C:And when I woke up, a friend of mine called Alex, who has been also fundraising for Ukraine with me, he had sent me a screenshot of this and he said, well, this happened and he's a funny guy.
Speaker C:So I thought I was some sort of fake photoshopped picture or something.
Speaker C:But then when I went online, I looked at the notification and it was real.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's been quite crazy since, for the last three days because I've been getting calls from all directions and been giving a lot of interviews to the Finnish media, but also to other medias.
Speaker C:And for example, my father turned the radio on a couple hours ago and you could hear my voice speaking for like 10 minutes.
Speaker C:And it was something I had told on the phone two days ago to a reporter.
Speaker C:But it's been quite a.
Speaker C:Quite a.
Speaker C:Quite an experience.
Speaker C:I've been getting some more reach thanks to that.
Speaker C:So that's been good.
Speaker C:But at the same time, quite a lot of hate mail and threats and stuff like this, so.
Speaker C:Also some downsides to it, but that's.
Speaker C:That's how it is, unfortunately.
Speaker B:Well, I'm sorry to hear that.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think Mo and I have experienced a fair amount of that.
Speaker B:It's usually guys that drive really loud cars, and we all know.
Speaker B:But we know what that means about that person's first personality.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:So let's back up one step.
Speaker B:Jan, what was it that you tweeted?
Speaker B:And then what was Musk's actual response?
Speaker C:Yeah, so I said that Elon Musk is becoming the biggest spreader of disinformation in history and that the EU should do something about it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:And I said that he's hijacking political debates while doing that.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker B:Which is true.
Speaker B:Which is true, certainly in this country.
Speaker B:And he's trying to do it in Germany.
Speaker B:And has he tried to interfere in Finland yet?
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:So the funny thing is, I don't think that it's totally random that he commented on my post because an hour earlier he had posted something about and about immigrants being more likely to rape women in Finland than Finns, which is a totally stupid statistic that he's using because he's comparing immigrants from Afghanistan to normal Finns, ethnic Finns.
Speaker C:But the issue is obviously immigrants from Afghanistan are more likely to be male and they're more likely to be, let's say between 20 and 40 years old.
Speaker C:So of course they're going to have a way higher likelihood of doing these things compared to the whole population of Finland, which includes women and old people and young people and so on.
Speaker C:So there's some stupid statistic that he was sharing.
Speaker C:But yeah, he's been doing that and I posted that on Sunday and he answered me and he said, I don't know if I can say it on the podcast, but he, he said fire away.
Speaker C:He said, you retard, as a comment.
Speaker C:So that was his, that was his answer for.
Speaker C:But the funny thing is his parents.
Speaker B:Must be so proud.
Speaker C:So I'm sure they are actually.
Speaker C:Yeah, they probably are because I, I've seen some of their interviews and I think they might be proud about it.
Speaker C:But it was, yeah, it was a.
Speaker C:I was shocked that he answered to, that he commented on my post, but I wasn't shocked about the answer itself because he doesn't really, he doesn't get into discussions or debates.
Speaker C:He just, it's the classic thing when, when you know you're wrong, you, you attack the other person.
Speaker C:But you don't, you don't debate.
Speaker A:It's kind of become the, the go to, you know, in the past around here, you know, picking on someone, you know, a mental or physical disability was taboo.
Speaker C:Exactly.
Speaker A:You know, referring to people as being retarded has become a standard response now with no repercussions.
Speaker A:You know, it wasn't too far back that, you know, that was a career ender, but that was just a standard right wing response.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, no, it's sad.
Speaker C:And I actually, I made A short video about it where I said that the fact that basically him and his supporters are not trying to address what I said, but just insulting, shows that they know that it's hard to answer that because what I say is true and he's spreading a lot of this information.
Speaker C:And if you ask his own grok, who is the biggest spreader of misinformation right now, his name comes up first.
Speaker C:So it's a subject that's a bit taboo for him and I clearly got under his skin because of that and that's why he got mad and commented on it.
Speaker C:But as I've been telling some of the Finnish media, it's quite pathetic that the world's most richest and maybe most powerful man is spending his nights commenting and insulting people that he doesn't know.
Speaker C:Because my message didn't tag him.
Speaker C:I don't follow him, he doesn't follow me and I didn't address him in the message.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:So I wasn't talking to him in my post and still he finds time to comment on it and insult me.
Speaker C:So I don't know how well he's doing mentally, but yeah, now I would.
Speaker A:Assume that energized his followers and supporters to chime in as well.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:I tried to avoid looking at the comments and stuff, but they went hard.
Speaker C:He has a lot of fans and my guess is that some of them are bots as well.
Speaker A:Yeah, I've become quite proficient at using the block function on X.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, because you can't really, you can't debate, you know, like his comment, you know, you retard.
Speaker A:I mean, you can't really respond to that and debate it.
Speaker A:It's just.
Speaker A:That's their tactic is just to go, you know, the insult route.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And facts don't matter.
Speaker C:Exactly, exactly.
Speaker C:It's crazy how social media is because I don't think that Elon is such a tough guy live face to face, but he is basically like a nerd who has so much money and power that he can do this because he has bodyguards and so on.
Speaker C:And online it's always easy to insult people.
Speaker C:But a lot of these people like Elon and his supporters, I think that face to face they're much kinder, but online they get this self confidence that they can insult and issue threats.
Speaker C:And as I said, I've received quite a lot of threats as DMs, Twitter and Facebook and so on.
Speaker C:And it's unfortunate, but as you guys said, you've.
Speaker C:You've experienced the same and that's that's how it goes.
Speaker C:And I think the people who issue those threats are not the ones who are going to act on me.
Speaker A:So yeah, that's been my take is the ones you worry, worry about are the ones you don't hear from because.
Speaker C:Exactly.
Speaker A:Normally the folks that are running their mouth, that's about the extent of, you know, it's easy to be a keyboard commando in your basement, but yeah, face to face is a different story, right?
Speaker C:Very much.
Speaker B:Well, but Yanni, what these morons don't know is that conscription and you've been through the army, you've been trained in firearms and.
Speaker B:Yes, and Finland actually has, you know, a fair amount of hunters and guns that are licensed and regulated.
Speaker B:So you know, my, my feeling about it is, you know, somebody's gonna come knock on my door.
Speaker B:Bring it man.
Speaker B:I mean I, yeah, I've got a shotgun here, it's loaded and ready to roll.
Speaker B:If one of these morons, and you know they're like £400 and yeah, their truck would be so loud driving into the place they could never sneak in.
Speaker C:But yeah.
Speaker B:So anyway, have you, have you reached out to the police or anything on those?
Speaker C:No threats or.
Speaker B:It's nothing credible.
Speaker C:It didn't feel credible enough, so I didn't.
Speaker B:And it's all coming from Americans you think, and bots?
Speaker C:No, I think some of them, a few of them also are in Finnish so I don't know if they've used a translator or if they're actually Finns, but I think some of them might be bots because Russia is using quite a lot of bots that have become quite proficient at speaking Finnish.
Speaker C:So I think some of them might be bots, but some of them might be real people as well.
Speaker C:I think there's a sort of a trend.
Speaker C:Finland doesn't have any pro Russians or almost none, but we have quite a lot of these far right guys who are very anti woke and they, they see Elon as a sort of hero because he's saying out loud the things that they want to say and he's openly being racist.
Speaker C:So they, they like him.
Speaker C:So, so there are some of these people and of course those who are unhappy with what I said are the ones who are the loudest.
Speaker C:The average people in Finland try side with me but the average is not gonna say anything.
Speaker C:So, so it's, yeah, it's those who got pissed at me who are the loudest, but that's how it is and it's already better.
Speaker C:The first two days were a bit Rough.
Speaker C:But now it's already the third day and it's calming down a bit already.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:As you said, they can come.
Speaker C:They can come and try if they.
Speaker C:If they want.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And what's your family.
Speaker B:How was your family's reaction to Musk Fu.
Speaker B:Retard.
Speaker C:I mean, they.
Speaker C:They're a bit shocked.
Speaker C:Shocked at how big this became because in Finland it happened so that the news were on Monday, but Monday was a public holiday in Finland and there wasn't much going on in the news, so it was on all the main news news outlets.
Speaker C:It was the first thing, the main thing that you could see.
Speaker C:So my face was everywhere.
Speaker C:And it's kind of weird because I'm not very famous or anything, so it was a.
Speaker C:Was a bit of a shock for them and so on.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker C:But they're not.
Speaker C:Yeah, other than that, they're not.
Speaker C:So I don't know.
Speaker C:They.
Speaker C:They know.
Speaker C:They knew how Elon Musk is, but they're just surprised that he's so pathetic and so aggressive.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker C:But they.
Speaker C:I think they knew already.
Speaker C:He's that type of.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So what's next for you in this Musk dust up?
Speaker B:You're gonna let it die down or.
Speaker C:Yeah, I.
Speaker C:I mean, why don't you.
Speaker B:Invite him to Finland, have him come in, take him to a special ed classroom and explain to him how good a school system he has for special ed kids.
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean, that would be good.
Speaker C:If he wants to come visit Finland, he's.
Speaker C:He's more than welcome.
Speaker C:But, yeah, I think I'm just gonna let it die down because at the end of the day, I'm.
Speaker C:The reason I'm still on X is not for personal reasons.
Speaker C:I don't really enjoy being there, but X has been quite good for me in terms of fundraising for Ukraine.
Speaker C:And because of that, I really don't want to be shadow banned or lose my account because that happens.
Speaker C:Then I can fundraise way less money for Ukraine.
Speaker C:So for me, I try to take the positive side of this and the extra followers and reach and use it to.
Speaker C:To get more trucks and more drones to the Ukrainian army.
Speaker C:Of course, inside me, I wanted to answer something, but I just didn't answer.
Speaker C:Because of that.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, I think.
Speaker B:And that's a nice segue to our next topic, which is your.
Speaker B:Your work assisting with Ukraine.
Speaker B:So tell us more about that and make sure we get a website plugged in here so folks that are interested can help you.
Speaker C:Yep, thanks.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's.
Speaker C:So basically, when the war.
Speaker C:When the Full scale war started.
Speaker C:There's this Estonian entrepreneur called Ragnar Sas who founded a company called Pipedrive and he has some links to Ukraine.
Speaker C:He knows a lot of Ukrainians and he started this charity called Help 99.
Speaker C:And on X it's known as the 69th Brigade because it has this NAFO thing.
Speaker C:But the.
Speaker C:But the website is called Help 99 and it's an Estonian charity that brings trucks and drones to Ukrainian units.
Speaker C:And it's what's nice about this charity is that very efficient and it's only voluntary people mostly working.
Speaker C:So we get the money, we raise the money, then we bring the trucks ourselves and give them directly to the units.
Speaker C:There's no middleman, no extra cost.
Speaker C:So it's very efficient.
Speaker C:And my brother happens to know this guy.
Speaker C:And Ragnar asked my brother if my brother wanted to join.
Speaker C: And my brother joined in: Speaker C:So quite at the beginning of the full scale war.
Speaker C: y brother went a few times in: Speaker C:And then he told me that I should come as well.
Speaker C: nd I've been doing this since: Speaker C:And what we do is once a month there's a group of people who leave from Tallinn and go to Kyiv and they bring trucks and drones and all sorts of stuff with them and they're given directly to the units.
Speaker C:So one truck for one unit.
Speaker C:And we try to give the equipment to the units that need them the most.
Speaker C:And so I've been doing that and I don't go every month, there's always some people going, but I go every few months and we launch fundraisers.
Speaker C:And right now we actually finished one.
Speaker C:And we went to Ukraine in December and brought a little over 20 trucks to different units.
Speaker C:And I think the organization itself has brought you over 500 trucks right now, if I remember well.
Speaker C:And that's incredible.
Speaker B:That's incredible.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker C:So what's the website again, yoni help 99co.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, I've heard of that.
Speaker B:And I think actually one of our upcoming guests, former Congressman Denver Riggleman, was part of one of those brigades driving a truck in.
Speaker B:So we'll have to talk to him about that when we have him on.
Speaker A:So, hey, Yanni, if you would.
Speaker A:You know, here in the state, it's been bizarre, you know, for.
Speaker A:Yeah, my entire lifetime, Russia was viewed as our adversary.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:But it's become, you know, Putin's our pal and, you know, NATO is our.
Speaker A:Our enemy.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Could you kind of explain to folks here why Ukraine, why it matters?
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:I think the main reason for for this change in the US Is obviously conspiracy theories, Donald Trump, and so on.
Speaker C:But it's.
Speaker C:Yeah, Ukraine is the.
Speaker C:Is kind of like the last wall before the West.
Speaker C:And Ukraine wants to be a part of the West.
Speaker C:The west has always been working in a way that if someone wants, any country can decide who they want to be allied with.
Speaker C:Countries are sovereign, they can decide their direction that they take.
Speaker C:And if the west allows Ukraine to be taken by Russia, it means that we support this Russian rhetoric and thinking of spheres of influence.
Speaker C:So it means that we, if we accept Ukraine being taken by Russia, at the same time, it means that we accept that Russia gets to decide for its neighbors.
Speaker C:And at the same time, it weakens the US and it also makes the US a less trustworthy partner because the US has signed the Budapest memorandum and promised to protect Ukraine's sovereignty.
Speaker C:This was signed by the UK and the US And Russia back in the days when Ukraine gave its nuclear weapons away.
Speaker C:So if the US doesn't support Ukraine, what happens is that Russia gains, China gains.
Speaker C:At the same time, the US Is seen as weak and unreliable to its allies, and that makes the US Weaker.
Speaker C:But it's also just on a moral standpoint, it's totally wrong to let Russia take Ukraine because Russia has just made up excuses.
Speaker C:But there's no legit reason for Russia to take Ukraine.
Speaker C:There's never been any genocide in Donbass.
Speaker C:There's never been.
Speaker C:It's all built on lies.
Speaker C:So if the US Allows that to happen, then it means that the US Is not standing for freedom and for people's freedom to choose who they want to be and who they want to be allied with.
Speaker C:So it's basically the end of what the US has been standing for decades.
Speaker C:So, yeah, it's very hard for us in Europe to look at Republicans and remember how Reagan was.
Speaker C:Even if Reagan had his flaws on maybe on economic policy or things like that, but overall, Reagan was not standing for these dictatorships and so on.
Speaker C:It's crazy to see that the Republican Party has turned into this fan club of authoritarian regimes.
Speaker C:Just makes no sense.
Speaker A:It's amazing now that, you know, Trump is saying he wants to take and make Canada our next state and take the Panama Canal and take Greenland.
Speaker A:And so, you know, Denmark, you know, is a NATO ally.
Speaker C:Exactly.
Speaker A:And now you've got the US Threatening to use military force against a NATO ally to take their property.
Speaker C:And it's a NATO ally that has been helping the US In Iraq, in Afghanistan.
Speaker C:Denmark had the highest per capita losses in Afghanistan of All NATO members higher than the U.S.
Speaker C:so it's a true ally, a loyal ally that has been following the US Everywhere and that has allowed the US to have a base in Greenland.
Speaker C:And yet that's how Trump rewards them for their loyalty.
Speaker A:Well, I would imagine for, you know, you're literally Russia is your next door neighbor.
Speaker A:Yeah, I would imagine folks in Finland are looking at Ukraine, I think, think differently than, you know, we've got an ocean between us and Russia.
Speaker A:But yeah, what's the mood there in, in Finland for us?
Speaker C:I mean, we, Finland has a very specific history because we were forced into neutrality after World War II.
Speaker C:So for a couple decades, basically for the whole Cold War, we were forced to be neutral, even if in reality we would have sided with the west if we had a choice.
Speaker C:But Finns, even if they don't always say it out loud, out loud.
Speaker C:Finns have always disliked Russia and always feared Russia.
Speaker C:Because of that, we've been preparing since the end of the World War II, we've been preparing.
Speaker C:Our infrastructure is made so that if a war starts, civilians are protected and so on.
Speaker C:We have bomb shelters for all civilians in the country.
Speaker C:And Helsinki is kind of like has two cities.
Speaker C:It has an underground city and the city that you see if you go there, but the underground cities, bomb shelters mostly.
Speaker C:And because of that, we, of course, we are worried when we watch what's happening with Ukraine, but we're also not surprised because we've been preparing for this and we've been knowing that Russia acts like this.
Speaker C:And we've been very happy to see that Ukraine fought so hard because most Finns probably believed before the full scale invasion that if one would happen that Ukraine would fold and lose in a couple of weeks or months.
Speaker C:And actually that's not happening.
Speaker C:So Ukraine has been fighting heroically and that's great to see.
Speaker C:And that has weakened Russia on a military and economic level, but has also made Russia more unhinged.
Speaker C:So it's a tough situation right now.
Speaker C:We have no Russian troops almost at our border because they're all in Ukraine.
Speaker C:So we don't feel directly threatened by any full scale invasion, but we feel threatened by hybrid operations.
Speaker C:And Russia has a lot of them here in Finland.
Speaker C:And we're also worried for the Baltics because they're smaller countries with smaller army, lower populations.
Speaker C:So of course, Trump is a worry for us because we know that if Trump decides to spend US Membership in NATO or to leave NATO, that would empower Russia and China to make moves.
Speaker C:Russia probably knows that it's Very unlikely that Macron or Scholz are going to start a world war for some small city on the border of Russia, somewhere in Estonia or Latvia.
Speaker C:So we are worried, but we prepare.
Speaker C:And in Finland, we're maybe more worried.
Speaker C:For other neighboring states, we've been preparing, but there are some other countries that have been depending on NATO a lot, and for them it might be very tough if Trump makes moves, leaves NATO at some point.
Speaker A:Yeah, I know it's not much consolation, but a lot of us are worried about Trump, too.
Speaker A:So it's not just you guys.
Speaker C:No, no.
Speaker C:He can have a bad impact, of course, internally in the US as well.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And, yeah, it's just very tough to know what's going to happen because he keeps changing his mind.
Speaker C:And from our perspective, he seemed like the only quite positive thing about him in the first term was that he seemed somewhat anti China.
Speaker C:And now I think that there's been a change on that as well.
Speaker C:So he doesn't seem that anti China anymore.
Speaker C:So it's quite a.
Speaker C:We don't see much positive in him being the president here right now.
Speaker A:But do you think the.
Speaker A:His move is softening on China is a result of Elon?
Speaker C:I think it's a result of Elon, but not only Elon, the whole South African mafia.
Speaker C:So all the paypal mafia guys have quite a lot.
Speaker C:I mean, I mean, I'm sure Elon's thinking also comes from David Sachs and Peter Thiel a lot.
Speaker C:And those guys all have influence and they basically own J.D.
Speaker C:vance, and they helped him get elected and he probably owes them.
Speaker C:So that's probably one reason.
Speaker C:But I think the other reason is just simply that there was quite some continuation between Trump and Biden on China.
Speaker C:So even if Biden and Democrats are not fans of Trump, they realize during the last term that China is starting to really be a, an issue.
Speaker C:And they became more anti China than they had been before.
Speaker C:And since Democrats became somewhat anti China, then it didn't make sense for Trump to be anti China anymore, so he changed his mind.
Speaker C:But I think also finally, the last reason, I think, is just that China helped him get elected with TikTok, because TikTok has a huge influence on voters, as we saw in Romania with those elections, but Also in the US a lot of Americans use TikTok and TikTok acting in a way that we don't really know what he puts forward.
Speaker C:And that's the reason it's going to be banned.
Speaker C:But I think, I mean, maybe now it won't be banned.
Speaker C:But I think Trump realized that TikTok really helped him get elected and is a good way to spread this information and to influence voters.
Speaker C:So I think that's also one reason why he, he has changed his mind on, on China.
Speaker C:But it's, yeah, it's very scary to watch that.
Speaker B:And have you, have the Russians or the Chinese been probing Finland to test?
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, they.
Speaker C:So there's been quite a lot of, of things going on.
Speaker C:We have this pipeline between Finland and Estonia that was destroyed by a Chinese boat with a Russian crew a year ago.
Speaker C:So there was one pipeline that was destroyed and then we've had some Internet cables that have been destroyed.
Speaker C:And now we also had a cable that sent electricity from Finland.
Speaker C:Estonia that was destroyed recently by a shadow fleet boat by Russia.
Speaker C:So they've been acting a lot in the Baltic Sea, probing us there, but they've also done made moves in Finland, Dave.
Speaker C:There's been some break ins in our critical infrastructure, in our water supply and stuff like that.
Speaker C:And a lot of drones have been flying over our critical infrastructure.
Speaker C:And there's been more and more cyber attacks.
Speaker C:So they are testing us.
Speaker C:And it's a tough one because Finland is quite prepared for this and we've been expecting this to happen.
Speaker C:But their goal is also to scare the population.
Speaker C:So if you make a huge deal out of it, they win.
Speaker C:But at the same time, if you ignore it, they also win.
Speaker C:So you have to find the right balance and act on it without scaring the population.
Speaker C:So that's a tough one.
Speaker C:But I think so far Finland has done quite well on it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And from my, my perspective, you know, I've done a little bit of research on and been to Finland several times.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker B:But, but Finland really has a robust defense of its borders as well as has, as you mentioned, has been preparing for potential incursion by Russia for literally 50, 60 years.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And the populace is trained and armed and the defenses.
Speaker B:And I assume they haven't moved a lot of their defense equipment into Ukraine.
Speaker C:No, I mean, we give quite a lot of equipment, but we don't say how much we give.
Speaker C:So the way Finland works is if the U.S.
Speaker C:gives, I don't know, tank to the U.S.
Speaker C:they will give the value of that tank and count it as eight.
Speaker C:But when Finland gives equipment, the way we work is if we give new, new equipment, we count the value, but if we give old equipment, we don't count the value.
Speaker C:So that Russia doesn't know what equipment we've been giving or how much.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:I think most of the equipment we've been given has been old equipment, but we have, we kept quite old school military because we, we are a small nation of 5.6 million people and we know that you need a lot of artillery to stop Russia.
Speaker C:So our army, our air force is modern and we have tons, tons of artillery and a lot of men and we're well organized, but we have quite a small navy.
Speaker C:And obviously we don't have that much high level air defense.
Speaker C:We don't have that much.
Speaker C:We don't have ballistic missiles and things like that.
Speaker C:So our army is really made for territorial defense against Russia and we have a reserve of 870,000 men and our wartime troops are 280,000.
Speaker C:And the way it works is if a war starts, we use those 280,000 and then when someone dies, we replace them with someone from the reserve.
Speaker C:Then we have people serve for one year and then they have these trainings every year or two after that to keep up the skills.
Speaker C:And it's still very popular here.
Speaker C:People don't want to stop it.
Speaker C:And I think it's going to continue for a while, even if we are members of NATO, because we know that we can't depend on anyone.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that's part of the new Trump doctrine.
Speaker B:Is whatever loyalty we had to you in the past you can forget about.
Speaker B:Yeah, unfortunately, hopefully it doesn't come to that.
Speaker B:Yanni, obviously we're not wishing this to happen, but I don't think Americans and other, especially Americans don't really understand the, that the threat that Finland and some of these other border and Baltic countries have felt from Russia, even post, post glasnost.
Speaker B:And so I think the fact that you guys are prepared is probably one reason that they're not going to mess around with you too much.
Speaker C:No, no.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:The biggest fear is more for Latvia and Lithuania and Estonia.
Speaker C:They are, they're prepared for the size of the country, but they're just so small and they have a bit less GDP as well.
Speaker C:So their armies are just much smaller.
Speaker C:So, so those are the ones I'm more worried about in Georgia, of course.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So we've talked Putin, we've talked, talked Musk, we've talked Trump.
Speaker B:You know, as an outsider, you know what, what is your take on the Trump upcoming Trump reign, I guess we call it.
Speaker B:What are your thought?
Speaker B:Where do you think it's headed?
Speaker B:I mean, I'm just interested in your outside perspective.
Speaker B:Just because you seem to be very attuned to American politics and news and, and I think it helps Americans to understand what others are seeing.
Speaker B:Maybe we're not seeing some of it's.
Speaker C:Really hard to say, but I think it's obviously the fact that it's his last term, at least officially, and that he has the practice from the first term.
Speaker C:So he knows in the first term he still had some decent people around him who are not necessarily that loyal to him, but who are acting in the best interest of the country.
Speaker C:And because of that, the first term was not as much of a disaster as it could have been.
Speaker C:But he has learned from his mistakes and from people not being loyal to him, and he's only put loyalists around him this time.
Speaker C:So I have very low expectations.
Speaker C:I think they're going to have really high quality propaganda and they're going to, thanks to TikTok and X, they're going to be able.
Speaker C:And Fox News and so on.
Speaker C:They're going to be able to sell anything as good policy and as good results.
Speaker C:But I have very low confidence in this administration making any good moves on foreign policy, but also on any other policy.
Speaker C:I think U.S.
Speaker C:public debt is going to increase faster than before.
Speaker C:I think the prices are going to increase more than under Biden because of the tariffs and.
Speaker C:And the US Is going to accelerate the end of its hegemony by making its because the U.S.
Speaker C:needs its allies.
Speaker C:The U.S.
Speaker C:is strong, of course, but the U.S.
Speaker C:without its allies cannot confront China and Russia at the same time.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:So if the US doesn't help its allies and threatens them with invasions, they're also not going to back the U.S.
Speaker C:when the U.S.
Speaker C:needs them, needs help when confronting China.
Speaker C:So if the US Turns its back to its allies, it's also becoming weaker and less reliable, and that's going to mean less exports of weapons, less exports of everything.
Speaker C:Overall, I think the US Is going to become a weaker and more divided country.
Speaker C:And that's very sad because I think there was a great opportunity for the US to actually deal with Russia and China and stay the hegemon for, for at least a few decades longer.
Speaker C:But I think this administration has a chance to ruin this and to accelerate that decline.
Speaker C:So that's very sad.
Speaker C:And I hope that I'm wrong.
Speaker C:And even if I dislike those people, if they make good moves, I'll be more than happy.
Speaker C:I don't want them to fail because it's bad for humanity as a whole and it creates a lot of power vacuums and a lot of conflicts around the world if the US Withdraws and transits back.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:So I hope that they succeed, but I don't really see it happening.
Speaker C:And I think that they're going to have a hard time with all their promises and it's just going to be a shit show.
Speaker C:But I hope that I'm wrong.
Speaker B:Over to you, Will.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yanni, do you have any thoughts on.
Speaker A:You mentioned about disinformation and the proliferation of it and it's going to get worse, not better for the next four years.
Speaker A:So for folks that are still, that still believe in fact, it's.
Speaker A:To me it's going to be more of an asymmetrical fight.
Speaker A:You know, the, the other side is kind of beaten the media into submission.
Speaker A:You saw where Mark Zuckerberg now Facebook is taking down their fact checking.
Speaker A:Any, any thoughts on.
Speaker A:On how we confront this era disinformation and how we get the truth out of people?
Speaker C:There's this internal debate in my head that I've been having for a few weeks about bots and, and trolls online because the site we're opposing, they control the platforms, they have their own medias, but they also have bots and they use those and that helps them amplify their disinformation.
Speaker C:And obviously in terms of being honest, it's good that our side has not used bots because using bots is a very dishonest way to amplify information and push this information.
Speaker C:But I'm really struggling to see how we could fight them on disinformation and counter their disinformation without the use of bots.
Speaker C:So I'm really, I don't know because again, morally it's a very tough one.
Speaker C:But I think maybe we might need to have to.
Speaker C:We might have to do the same thing that they're doing, which is to counter fire with fire and to start using bots to cancel what they're doing.
Speaker C:Because every time you post something that's true, they will just get more reach because thanks to their bots and thanks to their disinformation, they just managed to beat us at that game.
Speaker C:So I think the only way that I see right now is get back at them with their own strategy.
Speaker C:But that's a tough one because again, once you do it, it's something.
Speaker C:There's no way back and you lose some credibility.
Speaker C:So it's a tough one.
Speaker C:At least in the us In Europe we still have the possibility to regulate and to try to take control over the algorithm.
Speaker C:We could, in the, on an EU level we could say that if we want to see the algorithm and we want to see what content is put forward and if you don't do that, we can ban your platform.
Speaker C:If we manage to do that, that's a good way to doing it.
Speaker C:It to do it.
Speaker C:But I think on a private level in the US bots might be the, the best way to counter bots.
Speaker C:And that's, yeah, that's a sad reality, but that's, that's what I've been debating in my head for the last few weeks.
Speaker B:That's so interesting, Yoni, because I, I actually advocated for that in this last, last election.
Speaker B:We've, you know, Democrats and independent minded folks have unilaterally disarmed themselves.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And the bots don't necessarily have to spread disinformation.
Speaker B:They could, they could spread fact.
Speaker B:So I've been advocating to create my own bot farm or our own bot AI program that could counter a bunch of this crap.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's really interesting that you've kind of come up with that idea on your own as well.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:And as you said, I think they spread this information, but we could just counter their disinformation with facts.
Speaker C:So it wouldn't be, in that sense, it would be more acceptable on a moral level as well because they wouldn't be real humans, but at least they would spread facts.
Speaker C:So yeah, I think that's, it's interesting also on my side because I haven't talked about this with other people, but it's great to see that some other people think the same way.
Speaker C:So I think that might be the way forward, but it requires some organizing and some funds and we have to see how it goes because the other side is not doing it openly and it's hard to do it in an open way.
Speaker C:So we have to.
Speaker C:But maybe I need to, maybe we need to start advocating for.
Speaker C:That's.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, I think what's formed.
Speaker B:The Finnish American alliance for AI Bots.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:And I've done crazier things than that, so.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:All right, so we've asked a lot of questions.
Speaker B:What questions do you have for us, Yoni?
Speaker B:Anything for Mo and myself that we could help answer.
Speaker C:What's your take on these nominations that Trump people, that Trump is going to try to nominate Tulsi and, and Hexath and, and so on.
Speaker C:Do you think that it's gonna go through or do you think that it's, that they're gonna manage to get some FBI background check on them or how do you think that it's going to work out?
Speaker A:It's going to be interesting.
Speaker A:I, I'm certainly happy I'm not John Thune, you know, the new, new, new leader of the Senate, because.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I'm hopeful that, you know, he's got a spine and it's gonna stand up and do the right thing.
Speaker A:I'm disappointed.
Speaker A:I, I spent 25 years in the military and one of my, my colleagues that I, I worked with, that I've known since, well, shoot, for 40 years now is Lindsey Graham.
Speaker A:And it really bothers me because I know that Lindsey Graham knows better.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And to behave the way he's behaving.
Speaker A:But he's made the calculation that it's in his interest to, you know, to sidle up to Trump and do his bidding.
Speaker A:So we'll have to see what John Thune does, I think.
Speaker A:I'm, I'm wondering if some of this saber ratt Panama and Greenland and Canada and that stuff is to deflect because there's so much attention getting focused on that.
Speaker A:There hadn't been a lot of talk in the last week or two about the horrible nominees that he's put forward.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:So I think in some respects, this may be, you know, another disinformation campaign to, you know, take the focus off because I can tell you I served in the military for 25 years and Pete Hedge Seth and I used to trade insults on Twitter until I think we both blocked each other.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:He's a horrible, horrible choice.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Secretary of Defense.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it really concerns me if, if.
Speaker A:Well, you know, number one, it concerns me having Donald Trump as Commander in chief.
Speaker A:I mean, yeah.
Speaker A:Here's a man that cannot meet the minimum standards of conduct that we demand of an 18 year old who's reporting today for basic training.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:He's going to be the commander in chief.
Speaker A:And Hedge Seth is, again, doesn't have the qualifications or the, the integrity.
Speaker C:No.
Speaker A:To do the job.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I hope I don't.
Speaker A:I hope I'm not putting too much faith in John Thune.
Speaker A:But, yeah, I'm, I'm hopeful that there are at least a couple of Republicans that will do the right thing and what's in the best interest of the, of the country and the world and not just bow down to Trump.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:That.
Speaker C:I, I hope that that happens.
Speaker C:And for some reason, I'm even more worried about Tulsi in the sense that she, I mean, het.
Speaker C:Sethi is a bad person and doesn't have the qualifications, but I don't see him as pro Russian or pro China.
Speaker C:I think that he's just a Trump loyalist.
Speaker C:And a bad person overall with no qualifications.
Speaker C:But Salsi is actually pro Russia and pro China.
Speaker C:And yeah, it's very scary.
Speaker C:But I hope that you're right and I hope that a couple Republicans will have enough of us do that.
Speaker C:So you did most of your career in the military, attorney?
Speaker A:Yeah, I was in the Air Force.
Speaker A:I'm an attorney, so I was in our, our JAG corps.
Speaker A: er did in the military was in: Speaker A:And my opponent was a young captain from South Carolina named Lindsey Graham.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker A:So that's, I've known him for, for 40 years now.
Speaker A:And, you know, when I was the chief prosecutor for the terrorism trials at Guantanamo Bay and I ended up resigning over the issue of torture.
Speaker A:And the two people that stood up against the Bush administration and fought against Guantanamo and torture and the whole, you know, post 9 11, you know, things that we did that we shouldn't have done were John McCain and Lindsey Graham.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so for me, it's really disappointing that, as I said, I, I have no doubt he knows better.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:But, you know, like so many others, he's made the calculation that it's in his interest to, to, you know, go with it.
Speaker B:And he's up for re election in two years, I think, too.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's where I'm hoping on the Senate side, you know, some of the folks that were recently reelected and don't face the voters again for another six years, you know, that'll get them past the Trump administration that maybe they can have the gumption to stand up and do the right things.
Speaker A: are coming up for election in: Speaker A:Is what's going to happen if I, if I stand up to Trump.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:They don't want to have Musk finance their opponents.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah, we'll see how long that Musk Trump thing lasts, too.
Speaker B:I mean, I, I'm, I'm a follower of, of human psychology and, and been around VIPs and government officials most of my life and most rooms aren't big enough for those two big heads to be in, so we'll see what happens.
Speaker B:But so, Yanni, thank you so much for joining us in our thank you first podcast here.
Speaker B:It's been a pleasure to talk to you and same if you could remind, if you could remind folks again about your Ukrainian work in the website where folks could go to as well as if they want more information on you, where they could contact you or see more about what you're doing.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:So the organization, the website is called help99co, and on Twitter or X, you can find it.
Speaker C:The name is the 69th Brigade.
Speaker C:And then to contact me, I'm on X with my name, Yoni Ascola, and I also have a YouTube channel with the name Yoni Ascola.
Speaker C:And you can send a comment or message and I will try my best to answer.
Speaker C:And, yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker C:It's been a pleasure.
Speaker C:And if you end up up doing a lot more episodes, I'd be more than happy to come again.
Speaker B:Yeah, why don't we do this, Yoni?
Speaker B:Why don't we have an open invitation for you whenever you want to come on and give us an update about things in Finland?
Speaker B:I think you, you guys are on the front line of what may or may not happen next.
Speaker B:And I think it's important that people here in these.
Speaker B:In the States and elsewhere understand that it's not just Ukraine that we're concerned about.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's other parts of the world and Finland certainly on the front line.
Speaker B:So with that, that, our thanks to you, Yanni Escola, for joining us this morning.
Speaker B:And thank you giving us an update on things in Finland as well as his interesting conversation with Elon Musk.
Speaker A:Yeah, keep up the good work.
Speaker C:Thank you.
Speaker C:And YouTube.
Speaker C:Thank you.
Speaker C:This has been Muck you, hosted by Colonel Mo Davis and David B.
Speaker C:Wheeler.
Speaker C:Muck you is produced by American Muckrakers.
Speaker C: com this podcast is copyright:
