Colonel Terry Virts vs. The Cult of Politics: A Space Odyssey Unplugged!

David Wheeler: 00:00:08

Welcome back, folks, to Muck You!, where we cut through the noise and dig into the truth. No sugarcoating, no spin. It's the raw, unfiltered conversations that matter to you.

I'm David Wheeler and as always, joined by my co host, the one and only Moe David.

Col. Moe Davis: 00:00:23

Hey, thanks, David. It's great to be here. Great to be back. We've had a number of interesting guests on and today is no exception.

I guess out of the eight or 10 shows that we've done, I'm really always pleased when we have a veteran on and particularly if it's an Air Force veteran. So I think this is the third time we've had Denver Riggleman on who served in the Air Force. We had Adam Kinzinger on.

And today we've got retired Colonel Terry. Terry Virts, who, you know, oftentimes I feel like I accomplished a lot in my lifetime and then I see a bio like his and I feel like such a slacker.

He's an Air Force Academy graduate, like I said, a retired Air Force colonel, former an F16 pilot, then had a distinguished career with NASA. He's in the Guinness Book of World Records. He's an author, He's a motivational speaker. Just a really interesting bio.

And Terry, we're really pleased to have you on today. Thanks for doing this.

Col. Terry Virts: 00:01:18

Yeah, thanks for having me on. I like your background, by the way. We saw it on video and I saw some Air Force patches on the wall.

Col. Moe Davis: 00:01:25

know, I've been retired since: 2008

But so how did you end up what, what got you into the military and off to the Air Force Academy?

Col. Terry Virts: 00:01:40

That's a good, that's a great question. When I was a kid, I was an exchange student. I lived in Finland with a Finnish family and I lived about a kilometer from the Soviet Union.

t evil empire. And, you know,: 1984

In the book: 1984

And so basically I joined the, went to the Air Force Academy when I was 17 to defend Europe from Russia. That was the, that was kind of my worldview at the time. And it's ironic that now, you know, for God, 40 years later, Russia's back.

They, they just don't change. And it's the same, same story.

Col. Moe Davis: 00:02:31

Yeah. They're our new best friends now, I guess, are allies.

Col. Terry Virts: 00:02:35

Oh, my God. Yeah, that, that, that's actually terrifying. It makes me sick to my stomach. So I, I, I flew into space with Russians. I have, I speak Russian.

I spent over a decade there, traveling back and forth there and have a lot of Russian friends. One of my very good close neighbors was Russian. And now they're an American citizen as of yesterday. Went through great. Yeah.

So I love a lot of Russian people and food and culture and everything. It's just the, the government has been, in my humble op, the main source of human misery on planet Earth for the last century.

I mean, they, they have been amongst between you know, making themselves miserable, miserable with the Soviet Union, between making other countries miserable with, you know, Estonia and Latvia and Poland and Ukraine. More than anybody, they just bring misery everywhere they go.

For my whole career in the Air Force, and I'm sure for years too, we trained against Mig 29s and SA6. All these Russian airplanes and missiles, they basically arm all the bad guys on Earth.

So if you're, if you're like, on the side of Russia, you're probably on the wrong side of it.

Col. Moe Davis: 00:03:45

Is ironic because I'm sure you've done the same. Spent hours in chemical warfare gear, you know, training to, you know, fight Russia Mach 4. Yeah. Or I was at 19th Air Force.

You know, the ballistic missiles where, you know, 24, 7, 365. We've got crews sitting there just waiting, uh, for the. Hopefully the time never comes.

But to turn the key and hit the button and suddenly for them to be our supposed best friend other than our adversary is just incomprehensible.

Col. Terry Virts: 00:04:15

Yeah, it's not in America's interest. It's not in anybody's interest. I'm actually watching Band of Brothers. I don't know if you guys like that. It's one of my favorite shows.

I think the most meaningful moment in my Air Force career was I led a four ship of F16s in a flyby over Normandy, the American military cemetery there, on June 6. And back in the ninet, it was on the anniversary of D Day. Missing man formation. It was just the ball. The really.

I've gotten to do some really cool things, and that was the most meaningful of everything I got to do. Just to kind of honor the men that died there.

Defending our friends and allies and weaker partners from a much larger dictator that was, you know, bringing evil And America used to do that, and I think we're going to do it again. We're just. We're having a really bad moment right now, but it's not going to last forever. Yeah.

Col. Moe Davis: 00:05:04

I'm like you, I'm hopeful that we're going to get through this rough patch and get back to being the country. Country that, that we ought to be. But, boy, it's scary times we're living in right now.

Col. Terry Virts: 00:05:13

Yeah.

Col. Moe Davis: 00:05:14

You mentioned F. You mentioned F16s. I, I look through your bio. I saw you were at Homestead when Hurricane Andrew rolled through and had to relocate up to Moody.

Essentially, my first assignment. I'm about a decade ahead of you, age wise.

My first assignment was at Patrick Air Force Base, and I bought a house there from a captain that was PCSing out.

Col. Terry Virts: 00:05:35

Right.

Col. Moe Davis: 00:05:35

ere back in August of June of: 1991

Col. Terry Virts: 00:05:45

The Herc or the volcano. Yeah.

Col. Moe Davis: 00:05:47

And he got out of there with just, you know, the clothes on his back. And then, you know, the assignment folks said, you know, it's not going to reopen. Where would you like to go?

And he said, you know, used to be stationed in Florida. I really liked it there.

Col. Terry Virts: 00:05:57

Oh, no, how about the Homestead?

Col. Moe Davis: 00:05:59

He went to Homestead. And so in August, August of 92, the second time in about 15 months, everything he had was lost again.

So I've always made it a point to see where he was stationed. And sure, I didn't go there.

Col. Terry Virts: 00:06:12

His call sign was lucky. Sure, I had heard of him. He was legendary.

Like, I think there was more, maybe more than one, but I remember absolutely, like, the Pinatubo guys were like, oh, my God. Yeah, yeah. All my, all my bases from that time frame got shut down.

Like, I went to pilot training at Willie the Fighter Lead in left Holloman, the F16s left McDill. Homestead got shut. You know, so everywhere I went, the base got shut down. So nobody wanted, you know, wanted me to move to their base.

Col. Moe Davis: 00:06:41

Yeah, it's funny, my wife and I, I got orders to, to go to Columbus Air Force Base as the senior attorney there. And I called my wife to tell her, and she said, I thought Wright Patterson was in Dayton. And I said, no, no, not Columbus, Ohio.

Columbus, Mississippi. And. And she cried. I think if you ask her now, the best assignment, the most fun assignment we ever had was at that UPT base where it was just. It was.

Col. Terry Virts: 00:07:08

When were you there?

Col. Moe Davis: 00:07:09

I was there from God. That would have 19, like, 87 to 90.

Col. Terry Virts: 00:07:15

Okay, so you're there before Doc Fogelsong was the wing commander.

Col. Moe Davis: 00:07:19

Actually, I worked for him for about a week. He was.

Col. Terry Virts: 00:07:23

Do you remember some F16 guys getting in trouble there?

Col. Moe Davis: 00:07:27

Yeah, I'm trying to think.

Col. Terry Virts: 00:07:29

It might have been. I had. I've been in trouble many times in my Air Force career. We were doing a vertical takeoffs. We were four F16s.

We were going on our way to Andrews for the. Like, just across country. And I was number four. And we did, you know, we got to the end of Runway, pulled straight up, and it was pretty cool.

Doing vertical takeoff at pilot training base. I thought the.

David Wheeler: 00:07:50

Yeah, it's gone. It's gone. Go ahead.

Col. Moe Davis: 00:07:54

All right, so we're talking about Columbus Air Force Base. You're talking about doing the. The four ship and the vertical takeoff.

Col. Terry Virts: 00:08:00

Yeah. So I was a new lieutenant, and we were on our way to Andrews, um, and we decided to do a vertical takeoff. Cause it's a weekend. It's pilot training.

I'm sure these poor lieutenant, you know, the other pilot training students would love to see this. So. And I was the number four guy. So number one takes off, goes straight up.

Number two takes off, and you go straight up to, I don't know, maybe 10,000ft and then level off. And as I was going straight up, I rolled the jet. So I'm going vertical, and I rolled the jet, and we go on to Andrews.

And we get to Andrews, there's a yellow sticky. Hey, call your home base. And we called home, and the colonel was yelled at us.

And then we had to fly back, and the whole squadron came in on a Sunday, and basically for them to chew our. To chew our ass up. And. And it was because of me. And the. My commander calls me in, is like, do you want a lawyer? Blah.

I'm like, sir, what are you talking about? I was. I was going vertical, and I rolled the jet. And he was like, blah, blah, blah, blah. So the wing commander there at Columbus was not happy. Those.

It was like in Top Gun, you know, those guys showboating. And I'm like, it's not. I mean, I'm going vertical. So it's. There's no, like, acrobatics. I'm already going 90 degrees straight up.

So what's wrong with rolling the jet so that I didn't really see a problem with it. But the colonel thought differently. Well, I was going to say real quick. So I got in trouble. I had to. They made me go grade landings.

I had to go stand by the Runway and, like, grade people's landings. My punishment. And.

But like, that week A, we had a Dutch exchange officer, and anyway, we were doing this thing to see how fast we could come up initial, which is like the traffic pattern before you land. And everybody wanted the triple nickel club. So we were trying to go 555 knots, which is really fast up initial.

Just like the scene in Top Gun where the. The captain spills his coffee, and then that wasn't fast enough, so then it was the Satan club. So you were trying to go 666 knots.

Anyway, finally this Dutch guy got in trouble. The colonel saw it, and so as soon as he was in trouble, I wasn't in trouble anymore.

David Wheeler: 00:09:58

So the.

Col. Terry Virts: 00:09:59

The career lesson that I learned was it doesn't matter if you do something wrong. You just don't want to be the most recent person to have done something right.

Col. Moe Davis: 00:10:06

Yeah, I really enjoyed Columbus. I. My family had a little airport here in North Carolina, so I started flying when I was 15.

Col. Terry Virts: 00:10:13

Oh, wow.

Col. Moe Davis: 00:10:14

Ended up in the Jag Corps. But my last day at Columbus, the wing commander said, come on, let's go flying. And so we took up a T38. The only thing I ever got to fly.

You could point straight up, and it would get. I mean, you do that in assessment.

Col. Terry Virts: 00:10:26

At some point, for a few seconds, you can do it.

Col. Moe Davis: 00:10:28

You stall out. But. But. So from. From the Air Force, you went over to NASA. What. What. What prompted that?

Col. Terry Virts: 00:10:37

I wanted to do it ever since I was a little kid. You know, like I grew up. The first book I ever read was about Apollo when I was in kindergarten. I had posters of the space shuttle and an F16.

The old red, white and blue, YF16 and galaxies. It's just what I wanted to do my whole life. So I read a book called the Right Stuff when I was a teenager. Great book.

Actually, I just gave it to my friend who just became an American citizen. I gave. Gave her some, you know, great American books, and that was one of them. And Travels with Charlie, a John Steinbeck book, is.

Which is a spectacular book. I gave her that. But, yeah, that. So it's something I've wanted to do ever since I was a little kid.

David Wheeler: 00:11:17

Okay, cool, so we'll edit this out. Terry. Sorry, I was.

Col. Terry Virts: 00:11:20

That's all right.

David Wheeler: 00:11:21

You know, usually MOE Dominates these conversations so badly that I take a nap, but. So, Terry, you've been in space, you've been in the military. Why is it that Air Force guys are such badass?

Col. Terry Virts: 00:11:36

Well, we're smarter than the Army. And Navy guys and better looking and more humble. But no, I don't know. I, I was lucky. I was very lucky. I mean, I'm.

I'm the rare guy that got to do what I wanted to do when I was a little boy. You know, I'm so, I'm very fortunate, I could say, you know, I worked hard, but a lot of people worked hard.

I was, you know, I was lucky when I got picked by NASA. Excuse me. So, but I think the hard you work, the luckier you get.

And there's a message that I tell folks and kind of my, my motivational, inspirational message is don't tell yourself no. So if there's some dream you want, you know, don't tell yourself no. If it's a big dream, you're going to have to work hard. It won't be easy.

But that first step, the most important step I think is that throwing your hat in the rain and going for it. So don't tell yourself no. That's, that's my advice.

David Wheeler: 00:12:22

Okay, so let's, let's apply that to this conversation. What, what are you dreaming about these days?

Col. Terry Virts: 00:12:28

Well, I'm dreaming about a America, you know, resists our enemies and is. Helps our friends rather than the opposite. So that's kind of my goal. You know, when I was in space, you look back and it's a beautiful planet.

It really is. And it's just gorgeous. And it's. You can't even imagine. You cannot imagine. I'm.

I'm doing a photography exhibit right now in Asia, or, I'm sorry, in, in Europe. It's in Graz, Austria right now. It's going to go in different places.

And the guy that did it with, with a lot of my space photography, it's the coolest thing I've ever seen. I mean, it is amazing. The prints that he did, he really did a great job. So when you go through this thing, you're like, man, it's a.

Earth is, is beautiful. It really is. Except, well, there's a couple of things that I took away.

First of all, that, that thin blue line, you know, when you look at our atmosphere, it is thin. It is really thin. And we have Planet A and there's no Planet B. So it's like, wow, it is a pretty planet, but, you know, we need to take care of it.

And the other thing is, people say astronauts don't see borders. You know, if we could just send people into space, they could hold hands and sing Kumbaya and everybody, everything would be great.

No, that's not true. First of all, if you're an empathetic person and your, your mind is open, then, yes, you're going to be profoundly impacted by space.

But, you know, we, we all probably could think of a few leaders these days who don't really have open empathetic minds. And the other thing is, when you look back at Earth, you do see some borders. Not a lot, but North Korea, South Korea is the most stark one.

It's just insane. Google a picture of that at night. You know, South Korea is thriving. It's brilliant white everywhere, city lights.

And North Korea is just a black hole. The other thing that you see, you know, when you look in Africa, there's no city lights. And so you can kind of see politics and corruption.

And I never expected to see politics on Earth, but you can see them through the city lights that you see, which is something I was completely not expecting to see. But, you know, that's, that's what I saw, really.

David Wheeler: 00:14:31

A view that very few people have probably thought. Colonel, so you mentioned a word important to me.

You know, my father was a Marine, so maybe I should defend the Marines on your, your derogatory comments a little bit ago.

Col. Terry Virts: 00:14:47

But no, just army and Navy. I love the Marines. My first. Okay. All right. We can bash the army and the Navy.

David Wheeler: 00:14:53

Okay, good, good. I'll remember that. So, you know, he, my father was. He was in the Marines during Korea and.

But somehow, you know, he grew up in a really small town in the middle of Iowa and they were so poor, they had to go. He had to go away from their home on the summers and work because they couldn't afford to feed his house.

But somehow he became a Democrat and a big Democrat. I mean, like, you know, the fucking, fucking Republicans. That. And I think that's through a lived experience. How did you.

How do you view politics these days? As a former Air Force NASA guy living in Texas, where do you see politics?

Col. Terry Virts: 00:15:33

I tried not to, but I, you know, jokingly, but I actually, I follow it extremely closely. I. Somebody just sent me this old Simpsons from 30 years ago, and it was like, man, the Simpsons nailed this 30 years ago.

There was, it was the Republican convention. And their signs were like, we'll do everything that's bad for you and we're evil. That was the Republican Convention.

Then the, the Democrat convention across the street was we suck and we can't govern. So it was kind of funny. And I love the Simpsons, but, you know, when you look at American politics, I tell you what, I.

From a foreigner's perspective because I do a lot of traveling. They're just aghast, like they can't believe what they're seeing happening in American politics. And I don't think this is what Americans want.

I mean, Clearly Americans in: 2024

They didn't vote to join Team Putin and join the Kremlin to attack our ally. And so we're getting, I think we're getting things maybe a little bit of buyer's remorse there. But I hear something that's really awful.

This is terrible. But, but it's, it is what it is. As you know, former government folks, there's a lot of senior political appointees.

k there's a thousand or maybe: 2000

All of them, 100% of them and 100% of the cabinet, all the top leaders in the American government got their job by line. They all had to pass this egregious 20, 25 minute loyalty test, which is like something out of the Politburo or something. And they had to lie.

say, you know, Trump won the: 2020

So when you build a house on a foundation of, on a bad foundation and a storm comes, that house is not going to stand. And right now, unfortunately, the executive branch of our government is built on a foundational line.

So that's not, you know, I don't care what party you are. I've, I don't care about what party. I just care about, I'm an American first, I'm a Texan second.

I care about doing the right thing for Texans and for Americans. And it makes me sick to my stomach seeing some of the stuff that's happening now.

Col. Moe Davis: 00:17:47

I don't know how it was during, during your military career, but, you know, during mine politics, you know, the folks I worked with, I rarely knew if they were a Democrat or Republican. It just wasn't an issue. You know, the military really prided itself on being nonpartisan.

And, you know, I served under both Democratic and Republican presidents. And I, you know, I never doubted. I mean, I disagreed with them on policy, but I never doubted they had my back.

And I just don't get that feeling with the current commander in Chief and the current Secretary of Defense and what seems like the politicization of the military. So I was always a big advocate to young folks.

I was on the faculty at Howard University at the law school, and I encouraged a lot of my students to consider a military career. I don't know that I'd do that now under the current administration. I'm just curious on your thoughts about where we are today with. With the military.

Col. Terry Virts: 00:18:40

How terrible is that to say? I mean, isn't that the worst thing that you've ever said? I. I'm not disagreeing with it.

I'm just saying, you know, my daughter is on a Fulbright scholarship right now, which is like the.

You know, that's a big deal in the Foreign Service universe and the State Department, and they just got a email warning that that program might be canceled and all this stuff might be canceled. And basically none of her friends want to work for the government. And that's terrible, man. The government is important. Our government is really good.

You know, we just had this Sorayan ceremony yesterday. Thousands of people just became Americans here in Houston yesterday morning.

There's a reason why all these people want to come to America, because we have a great country. I mean, it's a pretty good country. And part of that reason is we have a great government and we have things like the rule of law.

And, you know, like, you and I can do a business deal, and we know that we're probably going to implement what we say we're going to do. And if we don't, there's ways to do it. We have roads that work. You know, we have a military that keeps us safe. America works very.

Has worked in the past very well. And I think just destroying it with a wrecking ball is a bad idea. Should it be tweaked? Yes. Oh, my God. We.

The government is, you know, could absolutely be improved. Of course, it's an ugly sausage factory, but, you know, it needs to be tweaked, not destroyed.

And that's unfortunately, I think, what's happening right now.

Col. Moe Davis: 00:20:03

Yeah, I think you're exactly right. I know I worked for Congress for a little over a year, and then I ran for. And both. I'm a big advocate for procurement reform. I mean, we waste.

We waste so much money that, you know, you never run a business the way we run the government. But like you said, it needs a scalpel, not a sledgeham, to make those corrections. And it really bothers me, too.

I was a judge at the Department of Labor when I retired, and whether it's the military or the federal civil service. You would occasionally run into somebody that shouldn't have been there, but that was the exception and not the rule.

I mean, the vast majority of folks are there for the right reasons. They're not getting rich and they're, they're doing something because they believe it matters.

And to see them, to see them demonized and, you know, demoralized and you got to send Elon. The five things you did last week is. It's really just disappointing.

Col. Terry Virts: 00:20:57

It's. Well, it's disappointing, but it's also very damaging. I mean, the damage that Elon is doing to our government.

And by the way, the government is important. And it's kind of funny if you look at, you know, tax dollars in and tax dollars out by state. Red states get by far the most tax dollar.

You know, they, they. The government's a pretty good investment for them because a lot more dollars go into red states as a whole than, than blue states.

And yet, you know, it's being demonized and jobs are lost.

I think, I think there's going to be a lot of buyer's remorse, frankly, just to, I hate to purely political here, but I think the 26 midterms is going to be. There's going to be a lot of backlash.

And, and you know, the one thing that Americans want is checks and balances, like the government that you have to have checks and balance because they know human nature and they know that people want to be a king. And we see this in a leader that wants to be a king here in America. And that's not what America is.

And so that's why we have a legislature and a judicial and an executive branch. Right now, we don't have that. There are no checks and balances. The, the courts have some checks and balance. Not what we want.

I think the American people would much rather see the president of one party and the Congress of another party. So I think there's going to be a blue wave in 26. We'll see.

Col. Moe Davis: 00:22:09

Fingers crossed.

Col. Terry Virts: 00:22:10

Yeah.

Col. Moe Davis: 00:22:10

Yeah. You know, we're talking, you mentioned we're talking about Elon Musk. You know, you were the pilot of the shuttle Endeavor.

You're the commander of the International Space Station. So you certainly have a, you know, a unique perspective on, on the space program.

It seems like NASA is, is kind of being pushed to the side a bit and more. Privatization of space. I'm just curious how, how you feel about that. Is that the right, right approach?

Col. Terry Virts: 00:22:35

I mean, there's always been private companies you know, back in the 60s, Rockwell and Boeing, Grumman built, you know, the Apollo component. So there's always been private companies with boards of directors and share prices and all that have been building NASA hardware for a long time.

The approach now is much more hands off where NASA just here's some money, go build us something.

And by the way, Elon has gotten, I've seen numbers well north of $30 billion in government money and tax subsidies between direct contracts and other subsidies. So that's always been the case. But NASA's going a lot more hands off.

And frankly, you know, having the I'm from the FAA and we're here to help was our joke. And when I was a pilot, you know, you would rather have less government than more, I think when it comes to a lot of things.

And so American innovation is amazing. I mean what SpaceX is doing with this big giant starship rocket is amazing. That's a impressive rocket. The Falcon 9 dominates all global launch.

I mean the Falcon 9 has basically put every other company and country almost out of business when it comes to launch. So you know, SpaceX is clearly executing in some ways. But I think that you need the right balance. It's called a public private partner.

If the government does what it's good at, private sector is good, do what it does. I think that's a good balance. But you need a balance.

And especially when humans are involved, if you're just launching satellites and it blows up, that's fine.

Once humans get involved, you need some adult supervision and you don't want the Elon's 20 year old interns running things the way they're running the federal government.

Col. Moe Davis: 00:24:04

Yeah, I was, you know, I mentioned earlier my first assignment was at Patrick Air Force Base and I was there when Challenger exploded and the launches had gotten so routine that, you know, it just happened that day. I don't if you recall the. It was.

Weather was an issue in the morning, it got pushed back a bit and the only reason I saw it happen was it was around lunchtime where a group of us were walking over to the Officers Club for lunch when, when Challenger launched. And you know, we stopped to look at it and my, my initial thought was boy, the boosters separated, awful low.

And then, you know, just took a few seconds to realize that something catastrophic had happened.

But you know, they were launching like one a month and it becomes so routine that people kind of took it for granted until that day and it really drove home, you know, how important it is, you know, safety and I guess you know, looking back on the things that were missed during that mishap, that could have have prevented it. You're right. You know, you put human beings in the equation and it's a different story.

Col. Terry Virts: 00:25:03

Yeah. I teach a case study, I call it why Organizations Fail at Harvard Business School. And I do it for.

I just did it for a big company here in Houston last week. And it's about Challenger and also Columbia. And it's kind of frightening how similar both of those space shuttle accidents were.

They're basically the same accident. Different. One was an O ring and one was foam. So technically it was different.

But the leadership failures and management failures and, you know, all that stuff was exactly the same. So the point. Well, there's many points. It's a long involved. Case studies are great. It's a great case study. But there's.

It's one thing to learn a lesson and it's another to remember the lesson.

And that's true probably, you know, in our personal lives, but it's certainly true when it comes to business and technical things, you know, like the global financial. We all learn that you shouldn't be too big to fail. Well, is bank of America too big to fail?

Is, you know, Wells Fargo or Chase, or are any of those too big to fail? So, you know, humans are good at learning lessons, we're not good at remembering them.

Col. Moe Davis: 00:26:06

Yeah, yeah. I participated in a couple of aircraft accident investigations.

It seems like in every one that, you know, when you put all the pieces together, if any one thing had gone differently, it would have been a non event. Yep. It was just that string of things that just happened to align and, and led the catastrophe.

Col. Terry Virts: 00:26:24

Yeah, we used to call it the safety chain. Do you remember hearing that?

Col. Moe Davis: 00:26:26

Yeah.

Col. Terry Virts: 00:26:27

If you look at an accident like a chain, all the links have to be in place in order, you know, from start to finish in order for the chain to hold. And same thing in an accident. All these things have to happen for the accident to happen. If you break any of those links, the chain falls apart.

And if you stop, you know, there's a lot of different opportunities to stop accidents. Airplanes rarely just explode out of the blue with no war. Like, there's always some, there's almost always something that could have been done.

Col. Moe Davis: 00:26:54

All right, well, listen, I know you circled the globe, what, three, 600 times, but you're in the Guinness Book of World Records for circling at one.

Col. Terry Virts: 00:27:02

That's true.

Col. Moe Davis: 00:27:04

Can you tell the tell folks a little bit about that one trip around that got you in the Guinness Book of World Records.

Col. Terry Virts: 00:27:10

Yeah, so a good friend of mine named Hamish Harding, who, unfortunately, you may know his name, he was on. He was one of the passengers on board that Titan sub that went down. Yeah, so. So anyway, he had this dream, this crazy idea to.

He wanted to do it in honor of Apollo to set a world record going around the Earth. He was a pilot. He had some other records and so he liked setting aviation records.

So originally we were going to take an Apollo astronaut and I was going to fly. And then that didn't happen and we had to wait a year and then. Anyway, so I ended up making a documentary about it and it's called One More Orbit.

It was my first direction, my first movie that I directed. And it was cool. We took off and landed from the Kennedy Space Center. We went over the North Pole and South Pole.

So we set the, the world record for circumnavigation over the poles. And it was amazing. It was an amazing experience. We had to stop three times for gas. We stopped in Kazakhstan, Mauritius and Patagonia, South America.

And it was a really fun experience. It was about 44 hours, so almost two days in that airplane. It was in a business jet. So that's kind of cool. It's fancy, but not really.

I mean, you don't want to spend 48 hours in the, in the cabin. And it was a bunch of people. And so, yes, it was a business jet, but it was also, you know, it was, it was quite an adventure. It was a lot of fun.

And we flying over Antarctica, the most dangerous part by far because there's no divert. It was the July, which means it's wintertime in Antarctica. So I mean, we were like really low on gas. The air, it got really.

It got below the limit air temperature limit of the airplane. It was just. Yeah, it was an exciting. It was an exciting 44 hours.

David Wheeler: 00:28:52

So you've, you've got some leadership chop. Have you ever thought about running for political office now that conquered space and conquered Earth.

Col. Terry Virts: 00:29:00

It's funny, I get asked that question all the time whenever I do my space talk. There you will do Q and A and, you know, how do you go to the bathroom in space? And are there aliens? And all the standard questions.

And someone always goes, when are you running for office? So, yes, I've been thinking about it. When I was in, in middle school, in eighth grade, they said, what do you want to do when you grow up?

So we went around and when they came to me, I said, I want to be Secretary of State. So it's something I've had in my mind. So we'll see what the future holds. But you know, honestly, I. Running for office, just awful.

I've had friends who've done it, obviously. Mark Kelly, Senator Mark Kelly is a friend of mine. I was in when I was commander of the space station. His brother was on my crew and God, you know.

Well, you know, I think Mo, you said you ran for office, is that true?

Col. Moe Davis: 00:29:43

h, I ran for Congress back in: 2020

Col. Terry Virts: 00:29:50

God, I wish I would have known you. I would have emptied savings account. Well, not empty. The limit. The limit. Now the limit's 3,500. It was probably 3,000 back then, but. Right.

But you have to spend. Here's what my friends. First of all, everybody says mean stuff about you. And in the Air Force we had a rule it had to be 10% true.

If you were telling a story about somebody, you know, there's lies about you, there's your skeletons come out. It's just, you know, that's no fun.

And you spend, I've been told, six to nine hours a day on the phone asking for money, which is like, I can't imagine anything worse. So, and it's just constant and especially, you know, some for congressional races.

You know, you, you normally need millions of dollars to unseat, especially an incumbent, a lot of money. But if it's a Senate race like in Texas, that's a hundred million dollar race.

So it sounds like not a lot of fun between getting yelled at and, and, and spending all your time on the phone and you know, but you know, at the end of the day, we have to have good leaders because the U.S. government matters. I mean, we're seeing that right now.

It's only been a few weeks and there's been a lot of bad things are happening just to normal Americans. The billionaires are great, they're loving things. But like the average car mechanic or hairdresser man, it's a, it's been a rough couple weeks.

So we need to have good people in office who don't have to lie to get their job.

David Wheeler: 00:31:13

So, so what are you looking at?

I mean, Texas is a tough state for I think anybody to get elected because it's very competitive on the Republican side and, and Democrats have been redistricted out and gerrymandered out and all that crap. How do you run from Texas? And, and, and what race would you think you'd look at?

Col. Terry Virts: 00:31:32

Well, I, I don't want to speculate too much. But I mean, I, I, I used to, it's funny, I used to say, I need to run for Congress when I get out of the Air Force.

And then, like, the more I knew, the more older I got, the more experience I had, I'm like, I don't need to run for Congress. I need to run for Senate. And then seeing things the last few years, I'm like, I need to run for President. So. But running in Texas is tough.

A lot, A lot of states gerrymander, as you know. And Republicans and Democrats both do it, but Republicans do it more than Democrats.

So even though you look at the house and it's 50, 50 rough, but unfortunately it's 50 hyper partisan Republicans and 50 partisan Democrats. And it's because of this, the partisan primary system we have, especially in House races, leads to the most extreme cat.

In order to win the primary, you have to be an extreme person, which is not good. So Even though it's 50, the, it's much more partisan than, say, in 30 years ago when it was, you know, 60, 40, or 70, 30.

It was, they, they would still work across the aisle.

David Wheeler: 00:32:34

And Texas had a long history of being Democratic.

Col. Terry Virts: 00:32:38

It was all Democratic.

Col. Moe Davis: 00:32:39

Yeah.

David Wheeler: 00:32:40

When I was in the Young damn National Committee, populated with Democrats, and we'd have conventions down there, and. Yeah, those days are long gone.

Col. Terry Virts: 00:32:49

Yeah. This, I'm reading a biography, Max Boots biography of Reagan. And I stuffed envelopes for Ronald Reagan when I was in high school.

The Southern Strategy, the Republican strategy to take over the south, which was really, to be blunt, it was, it was a racist strategy, but it worked. The south is all, it went from all Democrat to all Republican now. But we have 38 House seats here in Texas, two of them in the last election.

Two out of 38 were decided by less than 10 points. So there are no competitors. There's maybe one. Or if you call 10 points, most people call 10 points getting your butt kicked.

So, you know, there's two of the 38 are competitive, which means that 36 of 38 have to appeal to the partisan base. So we have a lot of extremist congressmen here in, in Texas, which is not cool.

And, and, you know, we have John Cornyn in the Senate and his reputation, he's a grandfather, and he's very bipartisan, and he's, you know, nice guy, and he works across the style. He's just a Trump rubber. I mean, the, There are no more. There's very few. Don Bacon's an exception.

There are some exceptions, but there's Almost no exception, Republicans who are anything other than rubber stamps. And that's, that's just not healthy for America. America wants and needs checks and balances, and we don't have that right now.

David Wheeler: 00:34:02

Over to Mode. You got another one.

Col. Moe Davis: 00:34:04

I'm sorry. I wasn't paying attention. I'm sorry. I didn't see your note.

Col. Terry Virts: 00:34:06

Yes.

Col. Moe Davis: 00:34:07

Yeah. So. So obviously, you know, you're not throwing in the towel. You know, think you're, you're still hopeful that America is going to.

The pendulum is going to swing back in the other direction. What do you think we need to be doing? Folks that want to see a return to sanity? What do we need to be doing to try to.

I mean, obviously, I think some folks on the other side are just. There's nothing you can do to penetrate that bubble they live in.

But what do we do to try to reach out to those folks in the middle that might be open to reason?

Col. Terry Virts: 00:34:37

Well, that's the key. And unfortunately, right now, the Republican Party is not a functioning party. It's a cult. A party has debates.

Cults have witch hunts and that, you know, so that the Republican Party is gone, at least for now. That's not healthy. America needs at least two, if not more, you know, healthy political parties. And right now, the Democrats are the only one.

And I, you know, I've been talking to a lot of Democrats and I've been so encouraged because they all realize and they all really want to grow their party and to be open tent. In the past, they didn't. In the past, they were very, you know, you had to toe the line on all these progressive positions.

And I think Democrats have realized that, you know, America just voted. They don't like illegal immigration. They don't want millions of people pouring across the border. And I don't either. America just voted.

They, they don't want an emphasis on dei. They. They just don't, you know, they're. They. They want policies that are good for all Americans.

And so I think the Democrats are opening up their eyes to this.

And all the ones that I've talked to or, you know, even the progressive ones, and God bless them, they, you know, I love them, but the, the party, I think, is going to grow and welcome those moderates that are, you know, that they don't really like Trump, but they just couldn't stomach all those illegals pouring across the border. And frankly, I didn't like it. I hated that. I'm in. Here in Texas, we have lots of immigrants, obviously, here in Texas.

Well, everybody in Texas is an immigrant of some kind. Even the Native Americans here thousands of years ago came across the Bering Sea from Russia. Right.

So everybody came here from somewhere but it just needs to be done legally, I think illegally. And the vast majority of.

David Wheeler: 00:36:09

So if you were to run, you would run as a Democrat, independent, liberal Democrat or liberal conservative?

Col. Terry Virts: 00:36:16

I don't know. I hate labels.

And the late, you know, I just read a book last year called the Myth of Left and Right and it just dis like when you say conservative and you know, brands you a rhino. Republican. Well, he's actually the most Republican in name only. I mean there's nothing about his policies that are traditional. Free trade.

Are you kidding me? He's destroying the global economy and ruining all of our long term friendships with our allies. Stand up to Russia. Russia. He's on the side of Russia.

I mean that kills me to say that, but it's the truth. He's literally on the side of Russia. Small government. He had the biggest ever debt of any president ever.

So there's nothing Republican or traditional about him. So I don't like to use the labels just because they change. It's more about tribe than it is about any one particular policy.

David Wheeler: 00:37:04

Well, tell folks where they can learn a little bit more about you. Let's plug your book.

Col. Terry Virts: 00:37:09

Sure. Yeah, sure. So I have a website. It's just terry ver.com you can follow me on social media. I'm Astro Terry on Instagram and Twitter and Blue Sky.

I'm trying to use Blue Sky. I love Blue Sky. Actually I don't spend very much time on social media but I, I, I can't doom scroll on Twitter. It's just, it's the hate channel.

So Elon has really ruined it. So I, Blue sky is a great app. Instagram. So yeah, Terry verts.com and you know for where I do speaking and executive coaching and that kind of stuff.

David Wheeler: 00:37:44

Well that's terrific. And, and so what, what's given you hope? You know, Mo likes to talk about hope at the end of conversations and.

Col. Terry Virts: 00:37:52

I, I love young people. Yeah, go ahead.

David Wheeler: 00:37:54

Oh, I was just gonna say I'm kind of the doom and gloom guy and most the hope and, and change guy. You know what, what do you see out there that gives you hope?

Col. Terry Virts: 00:38:04

Well, I'm a realist.

I mean there's some bad, there's some really bad stuff happening and I'm not going to stick my head in the sand and say everything's perf against this, this stuff that's going on. But I love young people. Like I said, my daughter is on a Fulbright program.

Man, there are some smart 20 somethings out there that are really smart and they really are want good things for the world that I think the future is bright.

I had a chance to do a couple of Air Force speeches at dining ins and I did an F35 graduation talk recently and man there's some pretty good 23, 24 year old lieutenants that are flying F35 which is a pretty good airplane airplane. So I'm very hopeful about that. I think Lockheed sales are going to crater if we continue to crush our allies around the world.

No one's going to want to buy American products. So Lockheed and Boeing ought to, ought to start lobbying the administration to kind of zip it when it comes to bashing friends.

But I'm very hopeful that these young people there are, there are some good and old people like us, the old crusty men. Ah, these young people, they don't know any.

Back when we were kids, back when I was a kid I was like a knuckle dragging and I didn't know anything and these kids are like super smart. So I'm hopeful for the terrific way for you here.

David Wheeler: 00:39:18

And Colonel, we really appreciate your time and insight and, and also your service to our country. A lot of risk involved when you were in those aircraft and on, on the shuttles. So we appreciate that.

And, and also helping us understand what really matters. I mean your view of, from space of the Earth I'm sure has given you an interesting view of the world and life.

So we really appreciate you taking some time time. And Mo, I want to head back to you for one more thing.

Could you do us a favor and tell us about your book and where folks could get your book really quickly.

Col. Moe Davis: 00:39:51

Sure. You have a historical novels called Sovereign Oaks based on events that took place from where I'm standing right now.

Historical events that led to the development of western North Carolina and 100% of the proceeds are going to Hurricane Helene relief. So you can find it on Amazon.com.

David Wheeler: 00:40:09

And okay, so that's sovereign oak on Amazon.com folks and if the this conversation made you think or gave you a new perspective, please share it, subscribe, leave a review and join us next time for a deep dive. This has been Muck U. I'm David Wheeler. Thanks to Colonel Moe Davis for co hosting today.

Our guest has been Colonel Virts from Texas and please stay informed, stay engaged and take a moment to look at the bigger picture as Colonel Virts reminded us today. See you next time.

David Wheeler: 00:40:37

This has been Muck you, co hosted by colonel Moe Da Davis in Asheville, North Carolina and David Wheeler in Spruce Pine, North Carolina. Thanks to our friend and guest today, Colonel Terry Virts.

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