The Future of Asheville Post-Hurricane Helene with Mayor Esther Manheimer

David B. Wheeler: 00:00:06

Welcome to the Muck you podcast, produced by American Muckrakers. Let's roll up our sleeves and dive into the mess. Uncover the truth.

I'm your co host, David Wheeler and here to stir the pot, bring the energy and keep things real. Now let me hand it off to my co host, the one and only Colonel Moe Davis.

Straight shooting, no nonsense vet who's been in the trenches and knows how to cut through the noise with razor sharp wit and is also running to be the next congressman from NC11. Let's get mucking, Moe.

Col Moe Davis: 00:00:36

All right, David, thank you. It's a a beautiful day here in western North Carolina.

The sun's out, there's no better place to be and no better guest to talk about the local area than our own Mayor Esther Manheimer, who's joining us. She is a graduate of the UNC School of Law.

She's a partner law firm here in Nashville where she specializes in commercial lit litigation and land use.

the Asheville city council in: 2009

Mayor Esther Manheimer: 00:01:23

Oh, it's my pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Col Moe Davis: 00:01:25

Oh, sure. All right, well, let's start with how did a nice girl from Denmark get into the dirty business of being mayor of Asheville?

Mayor Esther Manheimer: 00:01:35

You've been reading my Wiki page, I take it? Yeah. Yes, I have. Fun. Fact, I was born in Denmark, but. But I moved to the United States when I was three, so.

And of course I didn't move to Asheville till I was 17, so I can't claim I was a native by any stretch of the imagination. I, you know, I.

So one of the things you were reading about my bio is that I have a law degree, but I also have a master's in public administration from Chapel Hill. And I really, really, really have for a long, long time enjoyed the issues that local governments face and have been very interested in it.

office for the first time in: 2009

Col Moe Davis: 00:02:30

Yeah. So you've had: 2009

It seems like being the mayor is a thankless job where, you know, no matter what you do, you know, you're pissing off half the people and nobody's ever fully happy. So what keeps you motivated to do this?

Mayor Esther Manheimer: 00:02:53

Well, you know, I started to worry when I've heard the first bless your heart, which of course is southern for I wouldn't want that job. So I think two things. It's very rewarding to serve as mayor of Asheville.

We have obviously a really active community, a lot of interest in what's going on at the city. So I wouldn't have it any other way.

I do think being a mayor has changed for anyone who wants to be a mayor in the United States or probably anywhere. And so it's definitely a challenge. The landscape has changed.

w can I be effective today in: 2025

Col Moe Davis: 00:03:57

You know, there's that saying that we live in interest, interesting times. And you've certainly been at the helm in some interesting times. We've been through Covid, we've been through Hurricane Helene.

I think most folks that listen to the podcast know that, you know, Asheville is a tourism based economy and both of those events, you know, had a big impact on our local area. So, you know, it seemed like we kind of recovered from the COVID crisis and then Hurricane Helene hit.

So where are we now in Asheville on the current road to recovery?

Mayor Esther Manheimer: 00:04:33

Well, you know, I would say a lot of things have been restored. I mean, of course, the hurricane was devastating, knocking out power and water and communications initially.

And so just getting those sort of emergency services back up and running took as, you know, a few weeks.

And then came sort of the next level of trying to build back a lot of the roads and bridges just, you know, so people could get around and get out of some of the traffic jams created by those sorts of issues. A lot of people dealing with their own personal situations, whether their home or business was destroyed or impacted.

So I think a lot of people, you know, it's funny, I talk to some people and they're like, talk about it like it was in the past.

But of course, recovery is ongoing and there are parts of it that are going to take several years just because of the infrastructure rebuild to our park system along the river and restoring our water system and building it back better. So From a public infrastructure standpoint, there are a lot of long range projects.

But the, the good news is there's a lot of funding that's available to do all this work. It's just a matter of getting it all done. But we do want to make sure people know that we're open for business.

We have a lot of businesses here that need to see more and more customers return, whether they're retail, restaurant, hotel businesses that rely on our tourism economy. So, you know, we are seeing, I'm right now in downtown Asheville and we are seeing a lot of business pick up.

We're seeing a lot of foot traffic here, especially on weekend ends. But we need to see more of that happen so we can continue to rebuild this economy which is not yet back to normal.

And, and really what normal looks like in the future will probably be something different, but hopefully, hopefully better.

Col Moe Davis: 00:06:32

Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned the pathway down by the river. I'm a bike rider and I usually get on there as one of the safest places to ride.

And I think I've gained 7 or 8 pounds since Helene because I didn't change my eating habits. But I'm not getting the exercise. So if you can move that up to the top of the list.

Mayor Esther Manheimer: 00:06:52

Okay.

Col Moe Davis: 00:06:54

I'm one of those people. I live just outside the city limits, so, you know, I bitch and complain about things in the city even though I don't pay city taxes.

So I'm one of those folks. I was reading, I think the city estimates there's about a billion dollars of infrastructure repairs that need to be made.

What's the prognosis on funding? You guys just passed a budget last night, I think with 256 million.

So obviously the extent of the damage is far greater than the city's capacity to handle it. So how's it looking about getting funding to repair the infrastructure?

Mayor Esther Manheimer: 00:07:29

Well, the overall picture is good. So the way this works is that FEMA provides the funding to rebuild infrastructure. Think about it like a gigantic insurance claim.

You, you have to go around and document all your damage. We have finished with that part of the process. And then you got to get FEMA's approval to rebuild.

So if it's, if it's a park or, you know, a swimming pool or, or whatever the piece of infrastructure is, you, you got to get them to approve it. And then they pay 90% to rebuild that infrastructure and the state pays the other 10%.

But layered on top of that, there are two other pots of money that are available. One is called hazard Mitigation.

This is federal funding also that passes through the state and the funding has already been provide, provided in the December congressional aid package. And this money can be used to search to if you will, build back better.

So if you're rebuilding a park or whatever facility, you can use this money to do, go beyond just rebuilding it back the way it was before. And then in addition to that, our city has been awarded $225 million in CDBG Dr. Or community development Block grant disaster relief funds.

And those can also be used throughout the community on things that weren't necessarily destroyed by the disaster but are needed to create greater resiliency in our community going forward. Can also be used to help the business community recover and to provide for much needed housing.

So there's, there's a lot of different funding resources. It's a really complex web.

We have had to, as most cities our size, hire specialists who understand how to navigate all the federal regulations that kick in when you're in a disaster of this size. So, so that work is happening. We talked a lot about it yesterday at the city council.

We reviewed a lot of the projects and kind of got a good overall handle on how this recovery work will, will work. And, and again, I mean, some of these things are one month, two months, a year, five years.

It's, it's depends on what the thing is that, that they're working on. But it's some of it short term, some of it's long term.

Col Moe Davis: 00:09:55

Right. So prior to Helene, were you an expert on turbidity?

Mayor Esther Manheimer: 00:10:01

No. Were you?

Col Moe Davis: 00:10:04

Yeah. That's one thing, one thing Helene did.

I think the educational level on the term turbidity, it was kind of like listening for the, you know, they call out the lottery numbers because every day you're waiting to hear what's the turbidity level?

Mayor Esther Manheimer: 00:10:16

Yeah.

Col Moe Davis: 00:10:17

So I think a lot of folks in this region now know a lot more about turbidity than they ever, ever thought they needed to. Listen, you mentioned fema.

And at least my perception, you know, FEMA got a lot of grief and a lot of, you know, a lot of things that were said about FEMA were, you know, just factually inaccurate. At least my perception wasn't, from what I've seen is we're definitely better off with FEMA than without them.

And my view was they did a pretty decent job and are doing a pretty decent job of help helping us get back on our feet. Has that been true across the city?

Mayor Esther Manheimer: 00:10:54

Yeah, I mean, I, I'm not sure where we'd be without fema. I mean, they're providing the, the bulk of the funding to be able to do all this work. They oversaw the debris removal.

It's, you know, the way FEMA works is they're kind of more of like a gigantic delegator.

And so they tasked the debris removal to the Army Corps of Engineers, who then hired, you know, every contractor and their mother to come in here and, and remove all this debris. So that's just an example.

I would say, you know, we, we, you know, I know there's a lot of talk about getting rid of fema, but we would be devastated if tomorrow the president got rid of FEMA without replacing it with pretty much the exact same thing. So, you know, maybe I don't know what will satisfy the political appetite. Maybe it needs a new name or something. But.

Well, you know, if I were to criticize fema, what I would say is that one of the challenges of fema, not just fema, but the federal government in general, is having to apply these sort of broad, sweeping regulations to specific situations.

So one of the things I heard a lot from FEMA folks was, you know, the kinds of devastation we've seen with landslides to private roads and bridges is fairly unprecedented and not the norm in a coastal hurricane event, which is what they're used to.

So they basically had to come up with a new program to deal with the repair of private roads and bridges because it just wasn't covered under individual assistance or IA, which as you may know, is capped at 42,500 per individual household. So they had to kind of figure that out.

And, and I, you know, I'm actually impressed with how quickly they did figure it out, considering you're talking about turning a battleship here when it, when it comes to a large federal entity.

So the, the, so I guess the shortcomings, I would say, are where the existing regulations didn't fit exactly our storm situation and the kind of damages we saw in this storm event. You know, another example, we had a bunch of businesses that needed water trucks. Whether they're hotels, restaurants, or medical practice.

Whatever they were, they needed private, privately supplied potable water for their business. But that wasn't anything that FEMA reimbursed for and doesn't reimburse for. But that was unique to this storm event. That's not the typical issue.

We also saw a lot of businesses that went dark after the storm because they had no water and no other way to replace it yet. It wasn't a business interruption claim under Their insurance policy.

So there's just a lot of things where we saw damages happen from that cascaded out of this storm event that there wasn't a program, a ready, set go that applied to this situation. So, you know, that, that, that's.

I think a lot of lessons have been learned from this, and maybe they'll make some changes in the future, but those are some of the shortcomings I noticed.

David B. Wheeler: 00:14:16

Well, madam Mayor, you know, I'm up here in Spruce Pine in Mitchell county, rural, which is certainly not politically Asheville or topography is a little more mountainous here. One of the things that amazed me was I live across from a golf course, which is across from a shopping center.

You know, within 24 hours of the wind subsiding, there was a parking lot full of 200 trucks with linemen and line women ready to roll. And I think that's something that's. That I'm just heartened by. I was amazed that we got power back here within about 10 days.

And I was just heartened to see that these folks were all here ready to help enroll in here in this small little community. And they must have had, you know, two or 300 pieces of equipment that came. That came with them. And so that was a story that I hadn't.

You know, I grew up in Iowa, and I hadn't experienced a storm like this. What's your favorite story that heartened you as the mayor of a city out here in western North Carolina?

Mayor Esther Manheimer: 00:15:38

Well, well, first of all, I would say, you know, it was one thing to be in Asheville during the storm. I can't even imagine what it was like to be in Mitchell or Yancey or Ash. Watauga county in some of these areas.

I've traveled up there quite a bit since the storm. Madison county, and, you know, just these smaller communities with the kind of devastation they were dealing with, just truly, truly amazing.

You know, we saw people, I think, at their best. I will say, after this storm, it was so heartening to see so many people help one another. I mean, it was truly astonishing. Every day.

In some ways, I thought, well, of course, this is how any community would respond to this kind of catastrophe, and they would make such great sacrifices for one another. But I am told this is not. Not the norm necessarily. One thing that I. A story I tell that I just absolutely loved. You know, I. I was the mayor.

I am the mayor, and I was jumping into action as the mayor right after the storm. And, you know, of course, ended up with the president on Marine one five days after the storm.

But I'm also, you know, a mom and a wife and a daughter. And I've got, you know, my dad and my stepmom and my mom and my in laws and my sister. I got a lot of people here and my children.

And so I was over in Woodfin, where my sister lives, a couple days after the storm because she and I were kind of trying to manage this grandparent situation.

And I was driving down her block and she said that all her neighbors on her block had decided that every day they were going to meet in one person's yard at 5 o' clock every day. And they had picked somebody's yard and they had put up this big tent and they had put a big ring of chairs.

And I went past right as they were having their first five o' clock session. And they were all wearing name tags, you know, the kind you take a marker and make yourself a name tag.

And I just thought it was the sweetest thing in the world.

And sort of funny, you know, this day and age with phones and everything, how it took this event where people literally had no other way to communicate with each other except to sit around in a circle in somebody's yard and finally get to know their neighbors and learn all their names. And I just thought it was a. A very sweet moment.

David B. Wheeler: 00:18:03

Yeah. And I think that that happened throughout the region. I know Moe met a lot of his neighbors he hadn't met before.

And same here up in my small community of Spruce Pine, I got to know all my neighbors finally. And so it was. It was really heartening to see that as well. So how has, you know, we talked a little bit about fema. It wasn't just fema.

There's a lot of other organizations that probably deserve some thanks as well. In addition to, you know, the government, who else have been big contributors into getting Asheville back into some semblance of. Of order?

Mayor Esther Manheimer: 00:18:50

You know, I mean, this is so interesting too.

You know, I feel like I've now got a PhD in natural disaster and I was just literally drinking it all in from the moment it happened just to see how the response works. So fascinating you have in North Carolina, the way it's structured, of course, is the emergency response happens on a county level.

So the county has an emergency operations center. In our case, we had a city emergency operations center that we actually just opened this last year on Broadway.

And we had redone all of our emergency operation procedures and we had trained on them. So we were all ready to go. And there's a whole system of emergency operations that works on where the counties interact with the state.

So the state is involved in providing services in the event of emergency through their office of emergency management and director Ray, which is so on the state level. And I had been in communications with the governor about that.

So, so you've got that whole piece of it and then of course you have the federal response. But in addition to that, it is amazing to me how many non profit faith based organizations are literally ready to roll in the event of an emergency.

esponse where they brought in: 1500

And the reason I interacted with them is because they needed me to put them in contact with the superintendent of Buckland county schools so they could find a baseball field where they could all camp for while they were, you know, while they were here. I mean, that's just an example of one organization that was ready to roll, but there are so many others.

You probably encountered them, they have tractor trailers packed and ready to go in the event of emergence of an emergency like this. And they just roll into the community and set up.

I mean I had Walmart called me up on my cell phone and said, you know, they had several semi tractor trailers ready to go. Where did we want them? You know, so we were, you know, it was just phenomenal to see. I was talking with Home Depot recently.

They, they have a store in East Asheville and they, they didn't close, they had staff sleeping in the store. So I mean, you know, there are lots and lots of folks that did things on a small scale and then you had these huge operations.

And of course locally we saw some unprecedented things happen.

Of course, Drew Reisinger at the Register of Deeds organized the Flush brigade which went out and helped people who are not, you know, they were homebound and not able to get water to flush their toilets and just real basic necessities like that. But they figured out how to get to those folks and help them reach out.

So it was, you know, we were, we were just reviewing this and I, because, you know, we need, we're doing an after action and we're going to figure out, you know, what went well, what didn't go well, what kinds of planning do we need to account for for the future?

And it's actually kind of difficult to draft a full scale emergency operation plan because there are so many of these outside actors that really do influence a full storm response that you can't really write into your emergency operation procedures because they may or may not be there the next time. They're going to be there in some capacity, but you can't really be sure.

And you need to design your emergency operation procedures, not counting on them. But in fact, that's really a big part of it.

Col Moe Davis: 00:22:54

One thing I was really impressed with was after the storm hit, it was neighbors helping neighbors. There's none of this, are you a Democrat, are you a Republican? Or, you know, where do you go to church? Or any of that.

It was everybody pitching in and, and helping.

And you had groups like, you know, Franklin Graham and Samaritan's Purse, and then you had Jose Andres and World Central Kitchen, and Yep, you know, the two of them are like opposite ends of the ideological spectrum. But both of their organizations were here in a flash and stayed. And they never ask whether you supported them or not.

It was strictly, what can we do to help?

Mayor Esther Manheimer: 00:23:36

Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. I mean, certainly now I will say, of course, we experienced a natural disaster right before an election in a supposed swing state.

So there was lots of room for partisanship on a federal level. I mean, I, I, I am certain that's one of the reasons why I spent most of my time hosting every single visitor under the sun coming to Asheville.

You know, of course, President Biden and I flew over Asheville. I met the vice president at the Charlotte airport.

But we also had Speaker Mike Johnson here and Steve Scalise, and, you know, we had lots of different congressional visitors. And then we had all the administration, SBA secretary, the FEMA administrator, the acting HUD secretary. I mean, just the Pete Buttigieg.

The list goes on.

We had a lot of attention focused on western North Carolina, not only because of the scale of this disaster, but I'm sure also because we were sort of in the political crosshairs right at that moment.

And I just tried to, and continue to try to deliver a message in a nonpartisan manner just to continue to get attention and focus on us to help us fully recover. We're hopeful.

We're hearing at the end of the summer, early fall, Tillis may be able to help leverage in another relief package and maybe time to go up to Congress again. We just need to continue to keep the focus on the recovery of all of western North Carolina and how folks can help us.

I think having all these different groups all across the political spectrum here and providing services and helping us out has been a good thing for us in our recovery.

Col Moe Davis: 00:25:31

Yeah, yeah, it really helped, too. I thought, you know, Good Morning America came and I mean, that you couldn't afford to buy that kind of advertising, Right.

That that whole show is just a big ad for Asheville in western North Carolina. Then we had Josh Stein on Colbert, I think, last week.

Mayor Esther Manheimer: 00:25:49

Yeah, that was very cool. Josh Stein has been a superhero.

I mean, just really focusing his entire administration on our recovery and creating the Western North Carolina Recovery Committee that I co chair with Senator. State Senator Kevin Corbyn and creating Grow nc, the entity that heads up the recovery on a state level. It's just, it's.

He's just been such an incredible advocate and hero for western North Carolina. It's. It's been pretty amazing.

Col Moe Davis: 00:26:21

Yeah, I don't, I'm not aware of any North Carolina governor that spent as much time out here.

A lot of folks in western North Carolina used to feel like they were forgotten, but certainly Governor Stein has given us his full time and attention out here. And yeah, I don't think we could ask him to do more. But, but, you know, it's still. I was downtown over the week.

Mayor Esther Manheimer: 00:26:42

Yeah.

Col Moe Davis: 00:26:42

When you can go downtown Asheville on a Saturday night and find a parking place and go into a restaurant without a reservation or. Which is kind of nice, I've got to admit that that's not normal. And I know a lot of folks are. Are suffering.

I think last I saw, Buncombe county is ranked number two out of the hundred counties and in unemployment. Any prognosis on. And again, you mentioned earlier, I think you're exactly right that people talk about getting back to normal.

I think it's going to be a new normal. It's not going to be the normal that existed before Helene. But any prognosis on when we're going to. When we're going to get there?

Mayor Esther Manheimer: 00:27:20

Well, you know, the state. I think the state has an estimate of time that they, that they're using as a benchmark.

But I, I was just talking to the Tourism Development Authority director in terms of the kinds of numbers they're seeing. And it is right now, it's very much a new normal.

For example, she was saying hotels outside of Asheville are up year over year, and hotels in Asheville are somewhat down. The other issue is that they aren't seeing as many tourist visitors. They're housing a lot of business visitors.

And that's because, you know, FEMA and other entities have a lot of employees in the area. That are staying in hotels. They're paying the government rate, which isn't as good. So. So it's not. It is definitely not back to where it was.

We have retailers and restaurants. Some say they're up, some say they're down. We have. You know, it's just still a pretty mixed bag.

And I think we have a challenge in messaging that we're open for business and that all the images, you know, every time I'm on national news still, you know, I'm being interviewed and there's a split screen, and next to me is images of flooding rivers and landslides and things like that. And I think for people who see that, they think, oh, my gosh, you know, this isn't a place we better go visit. It's a mess. But.

But the truth is that those. A lot of that has been cleaned up, and we are open for business, and people can come and visit.

But trying to get that message out is a little bit of a challenge. The state has provided marketing funds to the state tourism authority to be able to market North Carolina, and that is happening.

So hopefully we'll see some returns on that. It's sort of ironic, given that tourism can be a controversial topic in Asheville. But.

But I think, you know, there's 100 agreement that people want to see our economy recover and get stronger.

Col Moe Davis: 00:29:30

Yeah, I was encouraged this weekend. I went down to River Arts and parked and rode my bike, But a couple pulled in next to me.

It was a husband, wife, and a teenage son, and they were from Knoxville.

And they said, you know, they had heard that, you know, Asheville was, you know, still struggling to get back on its feet, and so they were looking for something to do for the weekend. So they came over to spend the weekend in Asheville and looking at the tags on the cars, you know, it's Tennessee, Texas, Virginia, South Carolina.

You know, it does seem like things are beginning to pick up, but we still got quite a ways to go before we're back to. To full capacity.

Mayor Esther Manheimer: 00:30:10

Yeah.

Col Moe Davis: 00:30:12

Let me ask you. You guys passed a budget last night. 256.4 million. Give me a little bit of a tax increase. I was really pleased, you know, back in.

When I ran for Office Back in: 2020

Could you tell the listeners a little bit about that? And. And. And. And kudos to you guys for doing this. I think it's a positive step in the right direction.

Mayor Esther Manheimer: 00:30:48

Yeah. So the firefighters came to us with an ask to add.

Right now the firefighters operate on that three shift schedule and they came to us and asked us to add a fourth shift so that they can try to get to a number of hours in a work week that mirror more of a traditional number of hours that employees work in a work week.

And you know, it sounds sort of simple, but it's, it's not from a funding standpoint because it means having to add another over, over a period of time.

u know, we're a city of about: 1300

And, and that will help them get to a schedule that provides, you know, just frankly, a lot better work life balance and a, and a more. And a wage that is more reflective of a living wage relative to the number of hours they, they are on the clock.

There is apparently, maybe Waynesville has made. Made moves to move in this direction and Greenville, South Carolina.

But we are told this is kind of the thing that we're going to see more and more fire departments do. So, so we're. So we're doing that now. We don't have vacancies really in the fire department. The last I checked, we had one.

So it's, you know, people want to be firefighters, so that's good, that's good news. They have a tough job and they sure showed us how tough it can be during this hurricane, putting their lives at risk to save people.

And, you know, I think this is something that is, it's expensive, it's difficult to do. It's really just the challenge for us. It's just kind of managing it from a financial standpoint.

When I say us, I mean the council, but it, but from a policy standpoint, it makes a lot of sense to do it.

Col Moe Davis: 00:33:13

Yeah.

You know, I grew up not too far from here, but I joined the military in 83 and left and, you know, back in 83, you know, Asheville was really depressing. You know, down downtown was boarded up. You know, it just wasn't a fun place to be.

you know, moved back here in: 2019

What do you foresee, like, when you look out at the future, what do you want to. What's the Asheville that you see, you know, 10, 20 years down the road?

Mayor Esther Manheimer: 00:33:55

. So I. Yeah, I moved here in: 1988

But I had moved from the Washington, D.C. area. So for me, as a cynical teenager, I couldn't believe it. You know, here we were. And of course, like you said, it has changed so much.

And I think for the future, I hope that we grow a balanced economy that's not dependent on one area or another, such as tourism. I hope we provide opportunity for younger people to move here and to stay here and to find jobs here so they see a future here.

I have three sons myself between the ages of 18 and 23, and I know that the kinds of careers they're looking at, it would be hard to find something here that would allow them to stay.

And I hope to see a community that continues to grow in diversity, is open and welcoming to people, and that provides an incredible quality of life for folks so that they have opportunities to enjoy and experience the outdoors, which is, you know, one of the main reasons why people want to be here.

And I think the city's job is to help support that and continue to build out greenways and bike lanes and parks and amenities that help, you know, people can enjoy music and the arts and. And all the things that help make life fun for. For folks as long as they're here and. And if they choose to have a family and.

And have a job and live and enjoy this place. So what does that look like?

You know, for me, it does mean kind of creating more dense, infill housing, walkable community, a bikeable community, and bringing more things here that allow for people to enjoy all the things I just talked about.

So, you know, my hopes and dreams for what the city can do in that is not only rebuild and build back better all of our recreational amenities, our parks, but to grow spaces like a performing. Performing arts center and other things that I think cities are responsible for, to provide the community for.

For opportunities to come together and enjoy one another.

Col Moe Davis: 00:36:32

Yeah. Well, listen, you know our, I guess, unofficial motto for Asheville is keep Asheville weird. So what are you doing to keep Asheville weird?

Mayor Esther Manheimer: 00:36:43

Well, I depend on the people of Asheville to help keep it weird, and I feel like they're doing a good job. Don't you?

Col Moe Davis: 00:36:50

Yeah, it's It's a great place. I, you know, I'll be honest, I, I, growing up around here, I thought the whole world was like this.

And I took it for granted that I joined the military and saw the rest of the world. And I couldn't wait to get back here because, you know, folks that haven't been here, you need to come.

I mean, there is no more beautiful place than Asheville, North Carolina, and the surrounding area and some of the quirkiest people you'll ever meet, but some of the nicest people you'll ever meet. And you know, again, to me it's, it's astounding.

When I was growing up, most of western North Carolina were dry counties and you know, Asheville to be the craft beer capital of the world would have just been unimaginable, you know, 40 years ago. So I'm really excited to see what the future holds.

I mean, I, you know, it's going to be, there are going to be some rough patches here and there, but I'm optimistic that, you know, they're brighter days ahead for Asheville.

Mayor Esther Manheimer: 00:37:46

Yeah, you said it. That was pretty good.

Col Moe Davis: 00:37:51

Oh, well, thanks, David. Let me toss it back over to you.

David B. Wheeler: 00:37:54

Okay, cool. So, Madam Mayor, again, you know, the mayor's role in Asheville is, I assume, a quote unquote, part time or secondary role.

How do you keep this life balance between your law practice, you know, you've got a big family, a young family, and you know, being the mayor of a city, that demands a lot from the mayor. How do you, how do you balance the two?

Mayor Esther Manheimer: 00:38:27

Exercise, sleep, hydration.

David B. Wheeler: 00:38:33

The normal.

Mayor Esther Manheimer: 00:38:35

Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm lucky to have a lot of help and support and in my different roles, whether it's being mayor at city hall or it's being a lawyer at my law firm, which is across the park from city hall. I'm looking at city hall right now from my law office or at home. I mean, we're sitting here having this conversation.

My mom's texting me and asking me what she can make us for dinner tonight, so.

David B. Wheeler: 00:39:00

Terrific. I'll be right over.

Col Moe Davis: 00:39:03

What are we having?

Mayor Esther Manheimer: 00:39:06

All right. All right. But I mean, it is a little bit of a. It is. I mean, there are times, there are times where I've thought, oh my gosh, can I do this?

Can I keep doing this? This is hard. But now, I mean, now I'm through the hard part.

My youngest just graduated high school and he's going off to college too, and he was two years old when I first ran for office. So, you know, now it's finally getting a little easier. But, but it is a lot. And I, you know, mayor is supposed to be a part time job. I'll say.

You know what's funny?

I mean, it's not funny, but after the hurricane when we got all the federal folks coming in, FEMA and all that, they assume every city is a strong mayor city.

And of course in North Carolina we have a council manager form of government and I'm not a strong mayor, but they don't really get that because there's so many states with strong mayors. So they just go straight to the mayor. And I, I tried to explain to them that I wasn't a strong mayor. In fact, this job was part time.

They would just look at me. I mean, here we were, you know, in the middle of this.

David B. Wheeler: 00:40:12

Yeah, why would you, why would you ever do that is what they're thinking. Probably. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you're a terrific mayor.

I mean, I, I live again out here in the rural part of North Carolina and have deep respect for what you did. I think you proved yourself to be a, a terrific leader during a time of crisis. And I, and I know you were very helpful.

Not only you didn't see boundaries around Asheville, you helped other mayors and, and other folks out in the region. You know, Josh Stein, I'm a huge fan of his. He's been up here even into Mitchell county again.

And folks have to realize that we are politically opposite of Asheville in that it's Trump territory. And, and I don't bemoan folks for that. They're actually nice Trumpers, most of them.

And, but you know, Josh Stein has made an effort to come up to these areas too, and not for political gain. He's here to help folks and get done.

Who, who do you see in western North Carolina that is in line with kind of Republicans or Democrats as the future of, of western North Carolina? Future leaders.

Mayor Esther Manheimer: 00:41:32

Yeah. Well, I mean, why, you guys surely have had Zeb Smathers on this show, right?

David B. Wheeler: 00:41:38

Well, we, we've invited him and, and we're getting him and a couple other mayors on Jim McAllister and the mayor down there in Blackstone County, Black Mountain, Preston Blakely.

Mayor Esther Manheimer: 00:41:52

Yep, yep. You're naming them all. You're naming them all right now.

We, I mean we're lucky to have some great folks in leadership positions in western North Carolina and they're glad to jump on an airplane and, and go to Washington and advocate for western North Carolina. The, the Peter o' Leary down there in Chimney Rock. He's a great guy.

You know, just, we just got a great, great group of folks around here that really understand that they need that.

You know, when it comes to something like this, we're, we're all, we're not a party, we are all together working as one to advocate for our communities.

And I, I, I'm, I think we're really lucky to have such a great group that, that understand the, that role and how important it is to, to stay in that lane when working on this. I, you know, I was just up in Mitchell county as a, you know, as a lawyer. I go to all these counties all the time.

I go to their courthouses and I try to take the opportunity to sort of see what's going on. And you know it is a very small county in, it had a lot of devastation and you know, a city like Asheville, we're lucky.

We have all these staff, we can hire consultants, we can get all the help we need.

And you know, we really need to provide as much help and assistance and resources to these smaller communities as we can because they're trying to, you know, they're trying to navigate this with these tiny little staffs and it's, you know, it's challenging.

David B. Wheeler: 00:43:24

Yeah, it is. And you know, I'll just give our own little report up here.

Again, we got $20 million courtesy of, well, FEMA and Governor Stein's office and emergency management. 20 million to remove debris and they've expanded the program into private property where they're going to, you know, my little three acres here.

We've got, you know, probably: 2100

And they're, the program allows them to come in and remove it and I'm on the list and it's going to happen eventually.

But you know, it's, we've got all these debris trucks rolling up and down the highway and normally I and moan about, you know, a bunch of semis polluted, polluting the area but my God, every time I see them I actually get out of the, I pull over, let them get ahead of me and because they're all working their rears off, I mean they literally are working seven days a week up here. So if folk think, folks think the area's dead and never coming back, they need to come visit it and see themselves.

So I also pitch folks to go to fly into Asheville, spend a couple days there, but take a couple of day trips up into this part of the country and check out what's going on, and you'll see that your tax hours are hard at work. And so, listen, you have had quite a shock to your system over the last year.

Have you personally thought about running for anything beyond the mayor's role in Asheville? Have you kind of looked at maybe Congress down the road after Mo's elected and retires? What's your political future look like, Mayor?

Mayor Esther Manheimer: 00:45:15

Hey, Moe, tell me how easy it is to run for Congress.

Col Moe Davis: 00:45:20

I'm guessing it's not any harder than being the mayor during a hurricane.

Mayor Esther Manheimer: 00:45:27

hen I graduated law School in: 1998

And I was there for four years and I helped make the sausage. And I do love it. I do love it. I think it's such fascinating work, such great work and that. Still know a lot of people down there.

You know, maybe one day it would be, you know, just an honor to represent this community in the legislature when it's. When it's my turn. But. But for right now, I, you know, I really do love everything local. I love a good.

You know, I'm about to go to a metropolitan sewage district meeting, One of my favorite things to do every month. So, you know, as long as I'm still that silly, I, you know, I might as well stay in this job.

Col Moe Davis: 00:46:20

You've got to.

David B. Wheeler: 00:46:21

You've got to love helping people to be in the position you're in. And that's what it's all about, right?

Mayor Esther Manheimer: 00:46:25

Yeah. No, I mean, you know, and if you go walk the halls of Congress and bless you, Mo, for thinking about it, it's just. It's such a different world.

It just feels very, you know, it feels very overwhelming. Number one, it feels hard to make a difference. We gotta have good people like you to go. Go give it a shot and. And try. But it's.

That's a whole different. That's a whole different scene up there. So, you know, I. I feel like this. This place is where I love to be and. And I wanna.

I wanna continue to serve this community for as. For as long as I can and as long as they'll have me.

Col Moe Davis: 00:47:11

Listen, we really appreciate you giving us some of your time and, you know, again, props to you. I mean, you really have just done a marvelous job under some really difficult circumstances.

And I think, you know, Asheville was really lucky in western North Carolina is really lucky to. To have you at the helm.

So really appreciate you taking time out to to talk with us and our guest and you know, we're rooting for you and rooting for Asheville and look forward to that new normal getting here as quick as possible.

Mayor Esther Manheimer: 00:47:41

It was so fun to talk to you guys. This was great. Thank you for having me on.

David B. Wheeler: 00:47:46

Okay, terrific. Well, that's all for this episode of Muck You. Thank you for joining us. As we dug through the dirt and got to the core of what's going on in Asheville.

I'm David Wheeler, your co host who loves to shake things up, keep the fire burning. It's been a blast sparring with my partner, in truth, Colonel Moe Davis.

If you're loving what we do, head on over to our website, americanmuckrakers.com for more episodes and ways to stay in the loop. Please consider supporting us with a donation to keep our site and the Muckyou mission alive and kicking.

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Jimmy Muckraker: 00:48:27

This has been Muck You! co hosted by Colonel Moe Davis in Asheville, North Carolina and David Wheeler in Spruce Pine, North Carolina. Thanks to our guest today, the Honorable Esther Manheimer, the mayor of Asheville, North Carolina.

merican Muckrakers. Copyright: 2025

You can learn more and donate@americanmokrakers.com thanks for listening listening and come back for the next episode of Muck you.