Judge Toby Hampson: The Greatest Appeals Court Judge We Know with an Inside Scoop on NC Courts!

David Wheeler: 00:00:03

Welcome to Muck You!, the podcast that exposes corruption, calls out hypocrisy, and digs through the muck others try to bury. I'm David Wheeler. You're with my co host, Colonel Moe Davis. Over to you, Moe, to introduce today's special guest.

Col Moe Davis: 00:00:17

Well, thanks, David. And hey, it's great to be back. We've had a little bit of a hiatus while we both been on vacation and done some stuff. So good to be back with you.

Col Moe Davis: 00:00:28

hat are up for re election in: 2026

He's got an impressive background. He's a graduate of the North Carolina School of Math and Sciences. I can assure you I was not invited to attend there.

en serving on the court since: 2018

Judge Toby Hampson: 00:01:11

Well, gentlemen, thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it. Looking forward to the conversation.

Col Moe Davis: 00:01:17

All right, so how did you get into the School of Science or of Math and Science? I lived in Durham for a while and that was right up the street from me, but they never invited me in.

Judge Toby Hampson: 00:01:27

Well, I always joke that I was the dumb jock at Science and Math. No, you know, I was very lucky. I was very lucky as a product of North Carolina public schools.

You know, my mom was a math instructor at Sandhills Community College down in Moore County. I attended schools like Sandhills Farm Life elementary and Union Pines High.

And so I think, you know, all that really gave me a really good grounding and, and just what an incredible opportunity and experience to have a school like the School of Science and Math up in Durham. And of course now there's one in Morganton too.

Col Moe Davis: 00:02:08

Right.

Judge Toby Hampson: 00:02:09

It's a really unique opportunity and I was glad to. Glad to have it.

Col Moe Davis: 00:02:13

Yeah. And it's one of those things I think a lot of folks aren't aware of that they really are a real treasure for the state.

Okay, so you're one of 15 judges on the North Carolina Court of Appeals. There's currently a 12, 3 Republican majority on the court.

And I guess just by happenstance, the three judges that are up for re election next time around are all Democrats. And it looks like the Republicans would prefer to have a 15, 0 court of appeals.

So can you Explain to folks just a bit that, you know, aren't, you know, intimately familiar with our judicial system. What's the role of the North Carolina Court of Appeals?

Judge Toby Hampson: 00:02:53

Sure. So in North Carolina, there are effectively three levels of courts.

First, you have the trial courts in each county, in all 100 counties all around North Carolina, our district and superior courts. And those are the courts most people are familiar with. Right.

That's where you go if you have a traffic ticket or if you have a court date and you have a single judge sitting out there, maybe a jury. That's where we have evidence and trials and the things most people are familiar with.

At the other end of the spectrum is our North Carolina Supreme Court. That is the highest court in our state. And so the North Carolina Court of Appeals sits in the middle.

And the North Carolina Court of Appeals hears Appeals from all 100 counties in North Carolina, all across the state, in practically every area of the law, both criminal and civil.

On the criminal side, we'll hear everything from an appeal of a DUI, you know, traffic stops and DUIs, all the way up to first degree murder, where life in prison is imposed. On the civil side, we hear just the whole gamut.

Everything from family law cases to personal injury cases, cases involving parental rights, cases involving environmental permits, property cases, contract cases, tax workers, comp. Just. Just the whole run of the mill.

So really, if you have a legal issue in North Carolina, one way or another, our court has spoken on it and issued a decision involving that area of law. We don't hear evidence. We simply look to see if there was an error committed by the trial court below.

So we're looking for, for legal errors and issuing opinions that help guide the judges, the lawyers and the litigants themselves figure out all these different areas of law.

Col Moe Davis: 00:05:05

Yeah, I guess another important question is there are 15 judges on the court. I noticed that seven of the 15 are from Campbell Law School. So in that court stacking.

Judge Toby Hampson: 00:05:18

Well, you know, we're, you know, we're, we're really proud of Campbell Law. We always felt like it gave us just like School of Science and Math.

It gave us a really good background in practicing law and particularly practicing law in North Carolina when we're dealing with these state specific issues. I always feel like it gave us a really good, good grounding in that regard.

Col Moe Davis: 00:05:43

Yeah, my JD is from North Carolina Central, and it looks like the only member of the court is your colleague, Jefferson Griffin, who is a Central graduate. So we're, we're underrepresented.

It looks like there's There are three of you up for, for reelect for reelection, John Arrowwood and Allegra Campbell Collins. And I think, correct me if I'm wrong, she is not not running for re election. Is that right?

Judge Toby Hampson: 00:06:11

your, on your ballot. It's in: 2026

e court and they're all up in: 2026

Col Moe Davis: 00:06:33

In all of these seats they're, they're statewide. So this isn't something you only have to be concerned about if you live in a particular area. This affects everybody from Murphy to Maneu.

Judge Toby Hampson: 00:06:43

That's exactly right. These, these are statewide elections and that's true of our Court of Appeals and it's true of the SU Court as well.

race on the, on the ballot in: 2026

Col Moe Davis: 00:07:03

Right? Yeah, that's going to be interesting. And a lot of money spent here in North Carolina on that one, I bet.

Let me, you know, like you said, you know, we talked about it's a, a 123 Republican majority right now. So why does it matter? I mean if it goes 15 0, why would that make a difference?

I mean didn't justice is supposed to be blind, so why would it, does it matter trying to hang on to three Democratic seats?

Judge Toby Hampson: 00:07:30

Well, I think a great example right now was in fact the litigation that involved Judge Jefferson Griffin and Justice Allison Riggs. And you know, we sit in three judge panels. And so I, I was assigned to the panel hearing that case when it came to my court.

And you know, and I wrote a dissent, meaning the other two judges who happen to be Republicans wrote an opinion that would have potentially changed the outcome of that Supreme Court race.

You know, where remember There was a 734 vote margin of victory there and that would have potentially thrown out the ballots of over 60,000 folks here in North Carolina as well as potentially throwing out the ballots of our military members and other overseas voters and their adult children that would have all been thrown out during the night from in that race, which would have had the potential to change the race. I dissented. So we had a 2 to 1 vote in that case and I wrote a long dissent.

And that dissent, while it didn't carry the day in our court ultimately, in my view, helped provide a roadmap for first, frankly, our state Supreme Court and Then subsequently a federal judge to really step in and say, listen, we shouldn't be changing the rules of an election after votes have been cast. Right. And while the election is ongoing or over.

And so I think that's a critical example of how having even one dissenting voice at the court makes a, makes a huge, huge difference. It makes a, provides, it provides balance. It provides a different perspective. And, you know, and we're, we're committed to upholding the rule of law.

We're committed to standing up for the rights of all North Carolinians. And so I think it's, I think it's absolutely crucial that we maintain democratic voices on our courts.

Col Moe Davis: 00:09:55

Yeah, I noticed in that particular case that was Jefferson Griffin vs. North Carolina State Board of Elections and Allison Riggs came out on April 7th of this year. The, the majority opinion was 36 pages and your descending opinion was 66 pages.

But there was one part in there in particular that really caught my attention. And here's what you wrote. You said the, the majority makes much of the fact. Eligibility to vote is determined as of election day.

rity changes the rules of the: 2024

This is truly legislating from the bench. And legislating from the bench is one of those terms.

I mean, it seems like, you know, when, when there's a Democrat in the White House, we hear a lot about death, debt and deficit. And when there are Democrats on the court, we hear a lot about legislating from the bench. But why'd you put that line in there?

Judge Toby Hampson: 00:11:17

Because that's, in my view, that's exactly what it was. It was by judicial fiat, a court imposing new election rules that were not promulgated by statute. Right. They weren't passed by the General Assembly.

They weren't adopted by an executive agency like a state, like the State Board of Elections through its rulemaking process. These were, these were rules that were being imposed by, by judges. And, and you're right, you know, we're, we're, we're, we're often accused of that.

But I think it's, it's critical to, to identify that when it's happening, because, you know, our job is to interpret and apply the law, you know, it's, it's not to make the law.

And so, and that's what I tried to do in that dissent, was to try and simply interpret and apply the law as it stood and not create something just out of, out of whole clothes.

Col Moe Davis: 00:12:30

Yeah, yeah, I remember. I've been a member of the, the U.S. supreme Court bar for about 37 years and did some appellate work there with.

Back when Ken Starr was the Solicitor General.

But I remember in when Chief Justice Roberts, during his confirmation hearing said, you know, the judge, the, the role of an appellate judge is to call balls and strikes. It doesn't seem like that's the case anymore. And, and I was looking at the numbers.

confidence in the courts. In: 2002

And how do we restore confidence in our judicial system?

Judge Toby Hampson: 00:13:21

Yeah, you know, you know, Hamilton wrote in the, in the Federalist Papers. And, you know, and I'll, I'll paraphrase and don't worry, I won't sing it, but, you know, the, the, the courts are really of the three branches.

David Wheeler: 00:13:37

Actually, Judge, if you could sing it, that would be terrific.

Col Moe Davis: 00:13:41

That'll boost our ratings.

David Wheeler: 00:13:42

Yeah, come on, let's.

Judge Toby Hampson: 00:13:44

I don't know, it might bring a swift end to the podcast. I don't know. No, if, you know, instead of the three branches of government, you know, the judiciary is the weakest branch.

You know, the executive has the power of the sword. You know, the president has the army and the law enforcement capability. The legislature has the purse strings. Right.

They're the ones that pass the budgets and appropriate funds. What the courts have is the trust of the people.

And, you know, that's our only mechanism for really having any authority, for having, having a mandate, and for, for trusting that people will follow our rulings as if they believe in a true independent judiciary. Because we are the direct liaison between the people and the other two branches of government. Right. That's where you come to challenge statutes.

That's where you come to defend yourself against criminal charges brought by the state. That's where people interact with the law is through our courts.

And so I think what we've seen is a constant drumbeat attempting to politicize the courts to make the decisions political. Here in North Carolina, judicial races were made, partisan races. So we run as Democrats, we run as Republicans.

And so I think there's just this increasing sense amongst folks that. That our courts are more beholden to the politics than. Than. Than before.

You know, I think judges were always viewed as being above politics, irrespective of your philosophical leaning. But. But these days, I think just that injection of. And constant drumbeat of partisanship, you know, has really, I think, does threaten to.

To diminish public trust in the judiciary. And I think it's incumbent upon us as judges to work to maintain and restore that. That public trust.

It's absolutely critical that, you know, our courts are there for the people and not just for partisan interests.

So, you know, so it's my belief, you know, yeah, we really should stand for the rule of law and to uphold justice and equity for everybody, for all North Carolinians, no matter who you are, where you come from, or how much or little you have.

Col Moe Davis: 00:16:35

So.

David Wheeler: 00:16:35

So, Toby, one of the things that Mo and I enjoy talking about is kind of the way Democrats have done things in the past. Is this a situation where maybe we should be partisan in the courts. You know, the Republicans are not going to be less partisan.

That's clear from the latest, you know, Rick's decision at the appeals level, at least. You know, I'm not advocating that, you know, you take cases and, and rule in my favor because I'm in court all the time.

But is there a situation when we should be partisan? I'm putting you on the spot, man.

Judge Toby Hampson: 00:17:20

No.

Col Moe Davis: 00:17:21

You are.

Judge Toby Hampson: 00:17:22

No.

And that's good, because I think one of the places that we, as certainly as Democratic judicial candidates have to be braver, we have to be bolder, and that's in being willing to talk about our values, which is. Which is something I think, as Democrats, we've been reticent to do.

As judicial candidates, we want to run on our experience, on our competence, our ability to do the job.

The fact that, you know, we believe in a fair, impartial, independent judiciary, which, by the way, is a Democratic value, you know, that perhaps in some ways, we do lose the electorate in many instances. And so. And when I say talk about our values, I don't mean talk about how we'd rule on any particular.

Particular case or rule we have any particular interests.

But, you know, that we do stand up for the rule of law, that we do believe in our fundamental constitutional freedoms and rights under our federal and state constitution, and that. And that we, as Democratic judges are the ones standing up for those values. And so I think. I think that is.

There is an element there where it's absolutely critical that we, we are able to express our values as Democrats and Democratic judges for the, and to the point is if we, if we do that and we express those values, then we will be judges not just for Democrats and not against Republicans, but for all North Carolinians, because that at the end of the day is truly what we stand for.

You know, you know, when I, when I wrote that dissent in, in the Supreme Court election case, you know, I, I didn't, I wasn't looking at the voter registrations of, of, of who the potential voters were, you know, and so we, I was just writing to uphold what I thought was right under the law and the facts of the case.

David Wheeler: 00:19:53

Right, all right. Well, that was a very diplomatic and judicial answer. I appreciate that. To a pretty broad, broad faced question.

So let's, let's talk politics a little bit here. Obviously, you know, I'm a big fan of yours.

We met when I was running for the state Senate down in, at the Rutherford County Democrats dinner and went out afterwards and had a bunch of laughs and a good time and, and I've really enjoyed getting to know you and your wife and. But why did you choose being a judge instead of legislative or executive branch?

Judge Toby Hampson: 00:20:32

Well, for me, it, I, it's, it's, it suits my skill set. You know, people often say, you know, why, what made you want to become a judge? And for me it was very specific.

I wanted to be a court of appeals judge. That's where I grew up as a lawyer. I was a law clerk for several judges on our court of Appeals.

As a young lawyer, most of my practice was in the North Carolina Court of Appeals, handling appeals of all kinds of, you know, I, and, and I love the work. Our work is, is primarily research and writing, driven and that's, you know, and I love that. I love using writing and to, to persuade.

I love using, you know, writing to advocate.

And so for me, yeah, that, that the judicial direction was the one that seemed to fit most nicely with my, you know, with my particular set of skills.

Col Moe Davis: 00:21:37

I guess I'm curious after the, your dissent and the, the Supreme Court case, our relations with Judge Griffin.

Judge Toby Hampson: 00:21:51

You know, we, I will say we, we've made, we've managed to maintain cordial cordiality. We're, we, we're, you know, we're not, we're not necessarily close, but you know, we maintain a level of professionalism right at the court.

You know, I always say one thing about our court that may be different than, than the legislature is we actually have to get the work done, you know, we have to decide cases. We have to, even if we disagree, we have to work together to get the opinion out.

We don't have the ability just to close up shop and end the session and go away without issuing opinions. It's absolutely critical that we do the work of the state. So that's something we continue to do.

Col Moe Davis: 00:22:42

Back when I was doing some work at the US Supreme Court, the clerk back then was a guy named Bill Suiter, who was a retired army two star.

And it surprised me because, you know, the perception was that, you know, that the opposite ends of the spectrum back in, in those days was you had Scalia on one end and Ruth Bader Ginsburg on the other.

And I remember General Suter telling me that, you know, one of the things that probably surprised the public the most were how close of friends they were, that ideologically they were polar opposites, but their families, they enjoyed the opera and they'd go out to, you know, dinner and to the opera. And, you know, personally they were great friends, even though when they put the robes on, they were typically, you know, diametrically opposed.

And I'm just wondering, is it that same kind of relationship on the court of Appeals?

Judge Toby Hampson: 00:23:39

Yeah, you know, in large part, yeah. You know, we, we generally are all, all get along pretty well. You know, it's, it's a lot different at the court these days.

You know, it used to be everybody was in the courthouse and in chambers. Now I see a lot of my colleagues kind of work more remotely.

And so, so I, I miss those kind of organic conversations where you can, you know, debate, offer suggestions, offer improvements, you know, collaborate or, or, or disagree, you know, kind of in person and through those organic, natural conversations that happen in the courthouse. But, but, you know, these days it happens a lot more over email. So, you know, that's a, that's definitely been a change in the last couple of years.

Col Moe Davis: 00:24:34

Right.

Well, you know, North Carolina truly is a purple state, you know, over the last couple of elections, and we voted Republican on the presidential side and Democratic on the gubernatorial side. And, you know, it seems like we truly are like a 50, 50 state.

So, you know, as an attorney, it, it's somewhat concerning to see that, you know, there's Republicans fought really hard for that one more, one more seat. I mean, I don't know what you can do with a, you know, with a, was it a 6:1 majority?

You can't do with a 5, 2 majority on the Supreme Court or what you can do with 15 judges instead of 12 on the court of Appeals. But do you see any path forward to making the judiciary less, less partisan?

Judge Toby Hampson: 00:25:27

, you know, sort of begins in: 2026

ublican majority court. So in: 2026

s hold each of those seats in: 2026

In: 2028

n that we keep these seats in: 2026

And through that, I think hopefully help, you know, at least kind of help maybe help restore that public trust and help, you know, help kind of work to take some of that partisanship out of the courts.

Col Moe Davis: 00:27:05

Yeah, I'd like to see that. I mean, obviously in the legislative branch, you know, it's expected to be partisan, the executive branch the same way.

But, you know, sure, it'll be nice to see the public have confidence that there's at least one branch where, you know, justice is blind and it really is calling balls and strikes and not, you know, not going into it trying to achieve a particular outcome.

So for folks out here, you know, if you're, you know, folks out in Clay county and Graham county and up in Mitchell county, what's your plan on how you're going to get to them and, and get them on, on your side come election Day?

Judge Toby Hampson: 00:27:44

Yeah, well, I, you know, I think, number one, you know, this is a statewide election and, and I plan on making it a statewide election. And for me, one thing I can do is, is show up. And that is.

So that's something that I am committed to doing, is coming out and meeting voters where they are in person. I'm going to put a lot of miles on the old Jeep and, but, but I, but I love it.

And you know, hopefully through that, you know, I think if, if folks get to see, you know, judges outside of their natural habitat and See them as for who they are and let them judge me, let them get to know me. But, yeah, we're. We're. We're definitely focused on making this a full statewide campaign. I think it's absolutely crucial that we.

That we try to get out to as many counties and as many communities as we can from the, the. From Cherokee, you know, out to the Outer Banks. I think it's absolutely critical because the reality is we are a statewide court.

We decide cases from. From every community in the state, and that doesn't matter whether it's the big city of Charlotte or Sparta. It's.

It's, you know, our decisions have to be able to be applied in every one of those communities.

We have to understand, you know, the impact our decisions are having in communities big and small, the impact they're having on individuals and their cases.

So, you know, for me, that's one of the silver linings of judicial elections is it does sort of force us to actually, you know, get out of the courthouse and actually, you know, have to talk to the folks that our decisions really do impact. You know, and I. So I think that makes us.

Makes us better judges to understand the real world impacts of our decisions and understand that we're not just deciding cases in a vacuum, that we have a. We have a duty. We have a duty to the people of North Carolina.

Col Moe Davis: 00:30:02

I'm curious, you know, the. In the federal system, judges or lifetime appointments, and obviously here in our state, it's for a term of years.

What's your perception on which, you know, is. Creates a. A better perception of impartial justice?

Judge Toby Hampson: 00:30:23

Yeah. You know, I think there are. There are pros and cons to both. I mean, I think you can.

You can look at the, you know, the appointment process and say, well, those are political employees, right? They're. They're appointed because they're. They have some favorable view of the. Of the, you know, the current administration or whatever.

And so, so you can even, you know, I mean, we see it, right? We see it on.

At the federal level and the US Supreme Court level where there's, you know, we see the political appointments and the confirmation fights, like, you know, which are usually partisan. You know, North Carolina likes to elect judges. It's in our state constitution. And in a way, it makes, you know, the judges answerable to the people.

And so, you know, that's a much more kind of close relationship, I guess, in that Hamiltonian view in North Carolina of the people and their judges in the courts. And so, you know, I think there's an element to say people are electing their judges. They're electing the folks they trust to be their judges.

So I think there's a good argument to say that judicial elections actually may be a way of helping increase the public's trust of the judiciary and maybe create a more diverse bench as well.

David Wheeler: 00:31:57

So, Toby, our judge. What, what can folks do? You know, we have a nice audience of folks from across the United States as well as in North Carolina.

Well, how can they help you?

Judge Toby Hampson: 00:32:10

Well, number one, you can join our campaign at judgetobyhampton.com you can learn more about me and sign up for updates. Also, this is a statewide campaign. It's, it's going to be hugely expensive.

You know, I, I often joke that we're running a, you know, senatorial or gubernatorial campaign on a county commission budget. But this year these races are going to be massively expensive.

And so you can contribute online@judgetobyhampton.com or you can go to ActBlue and find my page there. You can search Hampson. Amazingly, it comes right up. And then also it's actblue.com tobyhampton personal for contributions.

That would be honestly, that is the, at this stage of the campaign, that's the most critical piece is allowing us to have the funding to onboard campaign staff and to get that message out truly statewide to the millions of North Carolina voters that we're going to have to contact. Yeah.

David Wheeler: 00:33:15

Well, as you will hear from Mo and me, getting out there is part of the battle. I mean, spending time out with, not just with active Democrats, but, you know, real voters out here. And that takes money, folks. So please go to.

It's Judge Toby Hansen dot com.

Judge Toby Hampson: 00:33:38

That's right.

David Wheeler: 00:33:39

And it's H A M P S O N. A little bit of disclosure here. I'm a supporter of Toby's and big fan of his. And Mo, can we potentially count you in as a supporter of Toby's as well?

Col Moe Davis: 00:33:53

Absolutely. Even though, you know, I'm biased against Campbell because I went to Central, I'll still do it.

David Wheeler: 00:33:59

All right.

Col Moe Davis: 00:34:00

Well, cool.

David Wheeler: 00:34:00

You've got at least two votes out here in western North Carolina. Do you think you'll have a primary, Toby?

Judge Toby Hampson: 00:34:06

I am not anticipating a primary. No, I, my eyes are all straight on the general.

David Wheeler: 00:34:11

Okay, good. And any Democrats that are thinking about it for, well, there is one empty seat. I guess they could run for that.

Judge Toby Hampson: 00:34:16

That's right.

David Wheeler: 00:34:17

But don't even think about it because you'll get a call from either Mo or me. And, and you're not going to like that. Ask Bill Balla, former chair of the NC11 Democrats. Stay out of that one, Toby. But, so let's, you know, read a.

The end of end stages here. What we haven't talked about it lately, Mo, Bourbon. What are you drinking these days, Mo? Same thing.

Judge Toby Hampson: 00:34:43

Yeah.

Col Moe Davis: 00:34:43

I don't know if you saw. There was a big article I think I've mentioned before. I. I'd gotten to be a fan of. Fan of Uncle Nearest.

David Wheeler: 00:34:49

Yeah.

Col Moe Davis: 00:34:50

Yeah. And there's stories in the last couple of weeks where they're in some serious financial troubles in the New York Times.

David Wheeler: 00:34:57

Oh, no.

Col Moe Davis: 00:34:58

So I'm trying to do my part to help keep them afloat, so.

David Wheeler: 00:35:02

All right, Toby, do you have a favorite libation that you drink in a safe environment?

Judge Toby Hampson: 00:35:08

You know, in. In the quiet moments? I do like to sip on a bourbon, but normally you'll catch me with. With an ipa. And you guys have a lot of really good ones out.

Col Moe Davis: 00:35:24

Yes, that's it. That'll get you some votes out here.

David Wheeler: 00:35:26

Absolutely.

Col Moe Davis: 00:35:27

That's definitely a positive western North Carolina answer.

David Wheeler: 00:35:31

So in. In. Nobody else is listening here. It's just the three of us. So are there any judges that carry flasks that you've seen or heard?

Judge Toby Hampson: 00:35:45

Well, that's. That's the thing about a flask, David.

David Wheeler: 00:35:48

All right, all right, all right. You don't have to answer that. You don't have to answer that. All right, Toby, well, this has been terrific. Thank you so much for doing this.

You're a great North Carolinian American and Mo and I are with you 100%. Why don't we plan to do something out in here and get folks in a room to get to know you better? Yeah, that makes sense.

And you're welcome back to MUCU anytime to give folks an update. We like active candidates and folks like hearing repeatedly, not just once. So you've got an open invitation.

Anything else, Moe, before we close it out?

Col Moe Davis: 00:36:26

No. Hey, it's been great to get. Get back into this, so let's. We'll do it again.

David Wheeler: 00:36:30

Yeah, yeah. We'll get a little more active folks and start posting at least one a week from here on out, and we'll go from there. Judge, any final parting words?

Judge Toby Hampson: 00:36:41

Well, just again, thank you all for. For having me. This has been a lot of fun. I've enjoyed the conversation and thanks for.

Thanks for pushing me a little bit out of my comfort zone to do this. I think it's. It's absolutely critical that we get the word out about these statewide judicial races.

They are absolutely crucial, you know, for, for, for our democracy. And so I appreciate the work y' all do to get the word out and, and, you know, and the fight. So, so thanks.

David Wheeler: 00:37:14

And, and listen, folks, I mean, if you think judges are something that don't matter as much, you know, ask Supreme Court Justice Riggs about that.

And again, you know, Toby's dissent, even though he lost at that level, was used again in the Supreme Court to justify returning Judge Riggs to the North Carolina Supreme Court. So again, Judge Hampson, we wish you all the best. Please be careful out there. Work your ass off. And folks, Judge Toby T O b y Hampson.

H-A-M-P-S-O-N.com Do Mo and I a favor, sneak over there, throw the judge 25 bucks and then next time 50. And then just keep doubling it every month until you don't have anything left because this is pretty important.

Thank you for tuning in to Muck you with Colonel Moe Davis and me, David Wheeler. If you like what you hear, help us keep shining light on the mutual muck.

Head to americanmuckrakers.com to donate and subscribe to our substack for updates and exclusive content. Until next time, stay loud, stay vigilant, and don't ever say this in in the judge's courtroom, but if you don't like it, muck you.

David Wheeler: 00:38:34

By Colonel Mo Davis in Asheville and David Wheeler in Spruce Pine, North Carolina. Thanks to our guest today, the honorable Toby Hampson, judge on the North Carolina Court of Appeals. Muck youk is produced by American Muckrakers.